Re-filing Japanese chisels

[Jessica de Boer]

Good point Jessica, I hadn't thought about how hard it would be to actually work with someone that stubborn.

I know from experience it's very frustrating. I once worked for a furniture maker and he was like that. I would tell him about a new technique for example and he would immediately dismiss it even if he knew it was a better way of doing it. He would just say: "This is how I've always done it and I'm not changing." He just couldn't deal with the thought there might actually be a better way of doing something or that he might be wrong. We regularly butted heads because I'm not one to keep quiet. I got the hell out of there once I had some experience under my belt and started my own company. I now employ 3 people myself and I told them to please come to me if they know a better way of doing something because I can't know everything. It makes me a better furniture maker and if it's good for my company it's good for them as well.

[Brian Holcombe]

Vincent, I don’t own Kiyohisa’s, but certainly he may be the one filing them perfectly.

[Patrick Walsh]

Vin,

Kiyohisa,

not perfect but good enough for me.

You can see in a few photos where the tool transitioning into the ferel has a slight lip or transition. You can also see in places where I assume the maker filed then touched up with waterever blackening agent and or a sharpie. Third picture down shows this well.

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[Jessica de Boer]

I must be one of the few who does not care at all if the neck doesn't perfectly mate with the ferrule. It's a hand made product after all and I like this kind of imperfection.

[Vincent Tai]

Patrick,
I would call this perfect as can and should be for a normal neck style. The actual flush ones are these nasty looking ground on some slack belt things. Koyamaichi does this for a few chisels. It is not nice looking and are the hallmark of chisels by Grizzly etc. Even Ichihiro with his filed and polished style ones would leave a transition, as much for the eye as it is practical.

Are you thinking the splotchiness is from cold blue after some filling on the ferrule? It could be, or just some not great cold blue from the ferrule's original maker. (Though Im pretty sure some of the blued chisel hoops and ferrules are just from leaving bare steel at the right temp in an oven for a bit and then lacquering them up to protect them a little). These seem cold blued though from the colour, interesting. I can't see any touch up marks on the shaft itself. The colour of an artificial black is quite off compared to the original, especially if the shaft has the original skin left.

Thanks for the pics, I always like seeing more tools, especially from their owners!

Vince

[Vincent Tai]

And I wouldn't even call it an imperfection. The neck should be wider by a few hairs at least to ensure that good all around ferrule contact. a fully flush mate on a normal round style beck would look rather awful. Slack belt sanded. A jarring visual. The detail of the Kiyohisa hiramachi style that caught my eye is the neck width and chamfers seemed about as perfect as can be compared to the ferrule.

I lifted a photo from Chris Hall's blog. https://thecarpentryway.blog/2016/01...ent-of-riches/
Obviously when you get to this sort of thing it is really just refinement for there sake of refinement but nevertheless I like seeing it once in a while. Must add a lot to production costs though so not practical for many.

[Brian Holcombe]

Konobu:

[Edwin Santos]

How do the chisels perform? Do they take a fine edge, cut well and hold up to use?

If yes to all these questions, maybe the cosmetics will mean less to you.

Edit - If you bought the tool to be used that is. If your intention was to have it more as a show piece, then I can see where the cosmetics might be the most important factor.

Edwin

[Keith Mathewson]

Reading the replies has been enlightening and I’ll have to spend some time using them with a different mindset. Many of the tools I own now are handmade and I’ve come to expect a different level of finish then this. In the short amount of time I’ve used them they appear to be quite good. I’ll have to decide if the finish is such that a different maker would be a better choice.

[Dom Campbell]

On the topic of stubborness in Japanese craftsmen/shokunin, this is very much the norm by all accounts. The old apprenticeship system may well have led to this, with uncompromising ideas passed down with a great deal of reverence, which people are not likely to change.

And with things like this, the ideas tend to become more and more ingrained as they get passed down. Add to that shokunin who gets on in years, and the result is apt to be someone very uncompromising.

Reading accounts of shokunin, they seem to be some of the most stubborn, pig headed, difficult to work people with on a personal level - but any of them worth their salt is creating something truly incredible. They concentrate on the important areas, with little regard for anything else.

There will of course be exceptions.

FWIW, I have a set of mukoumachi nomi from Stan’s smith, and tataki nomi from Sukemaru and while the filing on Stan’s may be a tiny bit worse off, the steel is just incredible (as already mentioned already here), the weld lines are perfect, and the shape of the chisels (important for mortise chisels) are spot on.

As always YMMV.