Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 22

Thread: Propane substitute for bloxygen

  1. #1

    Propane substitute for bloxygen

    Have read multiple threads about storing partially used cans of finish with bloxygen, nitrogen, CO2, marbles, vacuum extraction device etc. Every once in a while someone mentions using propane as a heavier than air gas substitute but there has been surprisingly little follow up in the way of response. One person says he’s used it for years, one was afraid of using a flammable gas, one said it gave on off smell to latex paint..as far as I can tell (and I did search the topics and posts pretty thoroughly I think), not much else..
    Anyone else with other thoughts or experiences?
    Thanks
    Jeff

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roseville,Ca
    Posts
    455
    I have found “Stop Loss Bags” to be the most effective and user friendly.

  3. #3
    I'd like to use a protectant for danish oil cans. Speaking from absolutely no experience, I assume propane would displace air but might dissolve in the oil and cause a partial vacuum in the can. No idea if that would be a problem.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    E TN, near Knoxville
    Posts
    12,298
    I'm not a chemist. I do know that propane, C3H8, is certainly not an inert gas so reacting with something in some finish seems possible. The bloxygen people put this on their web site (keep in mind their goal is to sell Bloxygen to you): CO2? We use ultra pure Argon because it's totally inert. CO2 is okay, but it's not totally inert and will react with water to form carbonic acid. In fact, CO2 is relatively reactive compared to many other gasses.

    A person on another forum with an understanding of chemistry said while CO2 can react to form carbolic acid it may be unlikely.

    The best thing is to use an inert gas but those do cost more. CO2 is very cheap. Nitrogen is relatively cheap.

    I use nitrogen since I happen to have a spare tank full of it. If I ever empty this tank (I use it for other things besides finishes) I might get it filled with argon. Nitrogen is not an inert gas but it's not a relatively active element and will not react with many elements at room temperature.

    I wouldn't hesitate to use CO2 or an Argon/CO2 welding gas mix. I'm personally not interested in releasing propane into my shop air. It would a lot of it and certain conditions to ignite and set something else on fire. I don't want the smell - maybe if used outside.

    When I purge with nitrogen I probably use 10 times more gas than would be required but it has no odor and since about 80% of the air we breath is nitrogen it's not going to hurt anything or anyone (unless you put your head in a plastic bag and fill it with the gas). Nitrogen is also good for preserving food (I use it to extend the life of vanilla beans for making extract) and for dispatching mice caught in a live trap or injured/dying animals that need to be euthanized.

    Note, whatever gas you use other than Bloxygen, you will need to have tank and regulator - they are both relatively expensive and need to be acquired from a gas supplier. I suspect some people use propane simply because they can buy a pressurized cylinder of it at the hardware store.

    JKJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Clode View Post
    Have read multiple threads about storing partially used cans of finish with bloxygen, nitrogen, CO2, marbles, vacuum extraction device etc. Every once in a while someone mentions using propane as a heavier than air gas substitute but there has been surprisingly little follow up in the way of response. One person says he’s used it for years, one was afraid of using a flammable gas, one said it gave on off smell to latex paint..as far as I can tell (and I did search the topics and posts pretty thoroughly I think), not much else..
    Anyone else with other thoughts or experiences?
    Thanks
    Jeff

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    San Diego, Ca
    Posts
    1,647
    I've used propane to displace air in cans of Minwax wipe-on. It seems to work. I used a 1# propane can for soldering. I don't think that they put in an odor like they do when you have a large propane tank filled (like for your home heating).

    Based on reviewing some on-line papers, I believe that CO2 mixes with air and doesn't readily stratify. But squirting in some CO2 will displace some air and reduce the concentration of O2. But I believe that Argon does stratify. That is also why it is used to extend the life of wine once opened (e.g., Corovan).

    Although propane is heavier than air, I think that when it is in the gaseous phase that it too effectively mixes with air rather than stratify. I know that this goes against some common beliefs. I read a concern that propane may dissolve into the finish and cause the can to collapse. I have not seen this.

    When I am motivated to squirt in some propane (typically into a small Minwax can), I use a soda straw that can bend and wrap my hand around the nozzle of my propane torch and the straw and shoot in a few seconds of propane. It seems to work although I haven't done any controlled tests. I also suspect that storing volatile finishes in a refrigerator will certainly slow down any degradation.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    274
    Wow! I just store my cans of finish upside down on the shelf! I've been doing it for years and all the finishes last a long time.
    Don't let it bring you down,
    It's only castles burning,
    Just find someone who's turning,
    And you will come around

    Neil Young (with a little bit of emphasis added by me)

    Board member, Gulf Coast Woodturners Association

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Shenandoah Valley in Virginia
    Posts
    919
    I use argon to fill the cans that are oil based... do not use anything on cans that are water based...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Cambridge Vermont
    Posts
    2,280
    Seams like a great chance for all of you non-welders to learn a new skill. My mig welder has an Argon tank that I use if it's a finish that's going to sit for a long time.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Chicago Heights, Il.
    Posts
    2,136
    I use plastic pop bottles. As the level decreases I just squeeze the air out. Easy to pour and screw on lid. The 10 oz is great, a half liter allows the bottle to be flatten quite a lot. I use a pliers to unscrew the lid sometimes. I haven’t had leak yet. Pepsi’s vertical sides are easier than Coke.
    Member Illiana Woodturners

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Deep South
    Posts
    3,970
    For me, using an inert gas sounds like spending $100 to save $10.
    Last edited by Art Mann; 11-20-2018 at 9:52 PM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    E TN, near Knoxville
    Posts
    12,298
    Quote Originally Posted by Art Mann View Post
    For me, using an inert gas sounds like spending $100 to save $10.
    The gas to fill a tank is cheap, a LOT cheaper than the opened cans of finish I've wasted.

    The tank isn't cheap but if you already have tanks and regulators around. From my welding I probably have 8-10 tanks of various sizes.

    I've seen tanks on Craigslist. Before buying one make sure your gas supplier will trade or fill that size. Several sizes of smaller tanks are user owned, most of the others are leased and sometimes someone tries to sell one that doesn't belong to him.

    JKJ

  12. #12
    I have the stop loss bags and like them.

    Initially, I thought using a flammable gas seemed unwise. But after thinking about it, I'm not sure that propane is any less flammable/dangerous than the gasses coming off the oil-based finish itself. I can't speak to the chemistry of mixing propane with those finishes though.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

    “If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.”

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Ottawa, ON Canada
    Posts
    1,468
    For oils, I just fill up the can with water. The oil floats on the water and the oil stays fresh because there is no room in the can. I used to fill the can with marbles. That worked well, too, but I kept running out of marbles. My wife says it's because I lost all mine a long time ago.
    Grant
    Ottawa ON

  14. #14
    For oils, I just fill up the can with water

    Grant, how do you keep the oil free of water in use?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    NW Indiana
    Posts
    3,078
    The question is really what is cheap and practical for the average guy. I do not have 8-10 tanks of gas sitting around.

    I generally do not worry about it as I use finish fast enough to not have a problem.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •