Thinning the herd - your take?

[Derek Cohen]

I think that for some - especially when starting out - the chase of old tools is more fun than building stuff. Restoring tools is a hobby interest all of its own. For myself, I have always enjoyed experimenting with and getting to master new tools. They accumulate, and then it dawns on you that they are taking up needed space or your interest in the extras is no longer there.

I periodically thin the herd. I have very few tools that go unused. I do not have duplicates of the same tool. On the other hand, I have several block planes (because I like these little buggers), different sizes of shoulder planes, and a few (but different) smoothers. I do have two sets of tools: one metal and one wooden, because this is fun. Still, I only keep out those tools I am currently using, and the remainder are behind doors.

Over the past few months I sold off a bunch of little-used tools. I no longer had a need for a Stanley #45 (replaced by a Veritas Combo). I sold my scraper planes (including a Stanley #112) because I have not used them in years, and could not see a need for them in the future. Away went a few block planes, such as vintage Stanleys #65 and #18, because they are large and I prefer small planes. I sold a restored and prized, but unused, Millers Falls 74C with original 28" mitre saw. It is Huge .. too big for sawing mouldings. I kept a dinky MF #115. There was a lot more that went. Together, this paid for a replacement lathe for my Jet Mini (also sold), which I have used for spindle turning over the past 10 years. Now I am a happy owner of a new Nova Saturn DVR (with extension bed and cast iron legs - heavy mother!).

Thinning or rationalising?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike Allen1010]

Thanks for an interesting thread. OK, I'm persuaded by the comments here that by any rational standard I "probably" have way too many tools, certainly absolutely true with regard to saws.


In my defense, my theory is it's useful to have a duplicate of the absolutely most frequently used edge tools - so when one gets dull you can go to the backup without sharpening. For me these are: Jack plane, smooth plane, shoulder plane and mortise/dovetailed sized chisels – oh maybe also card scrapers….


Also in my defense, with regard to handsaw's, it's "clearly evident" everyone needs at least one saw ideally suited for the intended task. For example, gotta have range of cross cuts:


* 5 PPI (fenceposts and that patio cover your brother-in-law is always nagging you to build)


* 7 PPI (breaking down >4/4 and thicker stock when you get home from the lumber yard)


* 8 PPI, of course gotta have the "standard".


* 9 PPI for the kiln dried, SAS stock you know you love to buy from that swanky lumberyard.


* Finally of course we need a range of 10 – 12 PPI for finished crosscuts because this is where the "rubber really meets the road" when it comes to final dimensioning of furniture components. Now that I think about it, you probably need these finish crosscutter's in a range of sizes from 26" to 18" lengths - you know – one for the truck, small one to use on the workbench when you're too lazy to move the stock to the saw bench, oh yeah- what about when you're on a ladder trimming out molding for some kind of built-in/crown molding – gotta have small handy panel saw for that!


Well I guess that about covers the hand saws anyone needs Wait a minute I forgot Rip saws - clearly you need different saws for different stock thickness – 1/2", 4/4, 8/4 – obviously that 28" D-8 thumbhole 4 PPI ripsaw isn't appropriate for all of these?


The same can be said for joinery saws; of course you need the .015" plate 20 something PPI, rip filed dovetail saw for that fine work (yeah, those thin drawer parts can be kinda delicate), but what about cutting the tails on the 12/4 through legs of that Reubo style workbench you're planning to build? Gotta have a bigger saw for that – right?


Now that I stop and consider above conclusions; clearly these examples of ripping 1/2" half-thick drawer parts and 12/4 bench legs are obviously the extremes of the needed saw range. Any "practical" hand tool woodworker knows bulk of the dovetails and tennons you saw are going to be somewhere in between, so it's only reasonable to expect you "want", no "need" a range of rip filed back saws for these jobs.


I guess all that remains is bow saws for cutting curves. Probably have to include coping saw, fret saw etc. – (never know what I want want to try that marquetry), and oh yeah a flush cutting saw for trimming all those pegged M&T joints.


Whoooo, sorry for the long description – thanks for letting me get that off my chest!


Wait a minute, all these saws are set up for kiln dried North American hardwoods – oh no, what happens if I want to do all the same types of sawing in wet, soft woods?


Oh my goodness, that obviously means I need another complete set of all the saws for damp soft woods, with more set and deeper sloped gullets, to have any chance of building those outdoor planter boxes and lawn furniture that have been on my to do list forever!


OMG – now I understand! This is how one slides inexorably down the slippery slope of pathological hand tool addiction.


Welcome to the group – "Hi my name is Mike and I have a bad handsaw addiction"


Cheers, Mike

[ken hatch]

Thanks for an interesting thread. OK, I'm persuaded by the comments here that by any rational standard I "probably" have way too many tools, certainly absolutely true with regard to saws.


In my defense, my theory is it's useful to have a duplicate of the absolutely most frequently used edge tools - so when one gets dull you can go to the backup without sharpening. For me these are: Jack plane, smooth plane, shoulder plane and mortise/dovetailed sized chisels – oh maybe also card scrapers….


Also in my defense, with regard to handsaw's, it's "clearly evident" everyone needs at least one saw ideally suited for the intended task. For example, gotta have range of cross cuts:


* 5 PPI (fenceposts and that patio cover your brother-in-law is always nagging you to build)


* 7 PPI (breaking down >4/4 and thicker stock when you get home from the lumber yard)


* 8 PPI, of course gotta have the "standard".


* 9 PPI for the kiln dried, SAS stock you know you love to buy from that swanky lumberyard.


* Finally of course we need a range of 10 – 12 PPI for finished crosscuts because this is where the "rubber really meets the road" when it comes to final dimensioning of furniture components. Now that I think about it, you probably need these finish crosscutter's in a range of sizes from 26" to 18" lengths - you know – one for the truck, small one to use on the workbench when you're too lazy to move the stock to the saw bench, oh yeah- what about when you're on a ladder trimming out molding for some kind of built-in/crown molding – gotta have small handy panel saw for that!


Well I guess that about covers the hand saws anyone needs Wait a minute I forgot Rip saws - clearly you need different saws for different stock thickness – 1/2", 4/4, 8/4 – obviously that 28" D-8 thumbhole 4 PPI ripsaw isn't appropriate for all of these?


The same can be said for joinery saws; of course you need the .015" plate 20 something PPI, rip filed dovetail saw for that fine work (yeah, those thin drawer parts can be kinda delicate), but what about cutting the tails on the 12/4 through legs of that Reubo style workbench you're planning to build? Gotta have a bigger saw for that – right?


Now that I stop and consider above conclusions; clearly these examples of ripping 1/2" half-thick drawer parts and 12/4 bench legs are obviously the extremes of the needed saw range. Any "practical" hand tool woodworker knows bulk of the dovetails and tennons you saw are going to be somewhere in between, so it's only reasonable to expect you "want", no "need" a range of rip filed back saws for these jobs.


I guess all that remains is bow saws for cutting curves. Probably have to include coping saw, fret saw etc. – (never know what I want want to try that marquetry), and oh yeah a flush cutting saw for trimming all those pegged M&T joints.


Whoooo, sorry for the long description – thanks for letting me get that off my chest!


Wait a minute, all these saws are set up for kiln dried North American hardwoods – oh no, what happens if I want to do all the same types of sawing in wet, soft woods?


Oh my goodness, that obviously means I need another complete set of all the saws for damp soft woods, with more set and deeper sloped gullets, to have any chance of building those outdoor planter boxes and lawn furniture that have been on my to do list forever!


OMG – now I understand! This is how one slides inexorably down the slippery slope of pathological hand tool addiction.


Welcome to the group – "Hi my name is Mike and I have a bad handsaw addiction"


Cheers, Mike

Mike,

you talking about me?

LMAO,

ken

[Andrew Seemann]

Thanks for an interesting thread. OK, I'm persuaded by the comments here that by any rational standard I "probably" have way too many tools, certainly absolutely true with regard to saws.


In my defense, my theory is it's useful to have a duplicate of the absolutely most frequently used edge tools - so when one gets dull you can go to the backup without sharpening. For me these are: Jack plane, smooth plane, shoulder plane and mortise/dovetailed sized chisels – oh maybe also card scrapers….


Also in my defense, with regard to handsaw's, it's "clearly evident" everyone needs at least one saw ideally suited for the intended task. For example, gotta have range of cross cuts:


Cheers, Mike

I'm that way about smoothing planes. I have two #3s, (at least) five #4s and two #4 1/2s. I like being able to just reach for another plane when one gets dull rather than stopping to sharpen, and I like to have a couple different mouth sets readily available.

Same with block planes. I like having a plane dedicated to chamfering, one for slight adjustments, one for regular block plane use, one for my mobile tool box, and one for lending out, and a few others on hand because they are handy.

And card scrapers, two good ones on hand, and a cheap one for glue and cleaning off the benchtop. And some curves, naturally.

And chisels. One A2 set for beating into hardwoods, one carbon steel set for softwoods and light paring, one set of beaters for suspect woods, a set for my mobile tool box, and a couple other sets because they are handy.

And random orbit sanders. One that always has coarse grit (labeled "1" in black marker on the top) and one with fine grit (labeled with "2" on the top).

And bandsaws, one with a quarter inch fine tooth blade for cutting curves, and one with a 1" skip tooth and tall throat for resewing. And I'm watching craigslist for one to convert to metal cutting.

And then there is hammers. And drill bit sets. And saw blades. And glues. And cans of stain. And cans of finish.

Ya know, I think I am starting to see a pattern here. . . . . .

[Derek Cohen]

Andrew, you are not helping

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tom Bender]

Do not take up golf, any of you. Or fishing or motorcycling or especially antique cars!

[Frederick Skelly]

And chisels. One A2 set for beating into hardwoods, one carbon steel set for softwoods and light paring, one set of beaters for suspect woods, a set for my mobile tool box, and a couple other sets because they are handy.

Oooooooooooh!!! Six months ago, I convinced myself I didnt need a second set of chisels. But I hadn't thought of rationalizing it as a different set for hardwood vs softwood..... And Christmas is coming.

Must. Resist. Temptation.

[Frederick Skelly]

Do not take up golf, any of you. Or fishing or motorcycling or especially antique cars!

I have deliberately stayed away from bicycling for just the reason you are implying.

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

I have deliberately stayed away from bicycling for just the reason you are implying.

You know, it's kinda funny. I've been bike racing for about 13 years now and when I started out I would dream about the go-fast bits and spent a fair bit of coin along the way. But the better I got the less I cared about my equipment and I lost the desire to look for more/better stuff - I just focused on my racing / training. Don't get me wrong, I have good gear, but I don't have multiple race wheelsets or multiple race bikes (i train and race on the same bike) and I run the same helmet/shoes/bike computer/groupset etc until they are actually worn out. I've won a few state and national age group titles and lots of races. I'm a much better cyclist than I am a woodworker. But I spend a lot more time and money on woodworking tools. It seems to me that many professional or long-time serious woodworkers end up with a functional set of tools and whilst they love their tools they don't spend a lot of time thinking about them or collecting them; they concentrate on the outcome and have the tools they need to achieve it - just like me with cycling. I think I buy a lot of tools because I haven't achieved what I want to with woodworking yet and think that I need more tools to get there. No real point, just an observation.

Cheers, Dom

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

Just to add to that though - I also have friends who are great cyclists but spend a fortune on new bikes / equipment and just love the tech/bling - so maybe it's just completely personal. So perhaps the point is - do whatever makes you happy / brings you fulfillment. because that's what it's all about at the end of the day .

Cheers, Dom

[Frederick Skelly]

You know, it's kinda funny. I've been bike racing for about 13 years now and when I started out I would dream about the go-fast bits and spent a fair bit of coin along the way. But the better I got the less I cared about my equipment and I lost the desire to look for more/better stuff - I just focused on my racing / training. Don't get me wrong, I have good gear, but I don't have multiple race wheelsets or multiple race bikes (i train and race on the same bike) and I run the same helmet/shoes/bike computer/groupset etc until they are actually worn out. I've won a few state and national age group titles and lots of races. I'm a much better cyclist than I am a woodworker. But I spend a lot more time and money on woodworking tools. It seems to me that many professional or long-time serious woodworkers end up with a functional set of tools and whilst they love their tools they don't spend a lot of time thinking about them or collecting them; they concentrate on the outcome and have the tools they need to achieve it - just like me with cycling. I think I buy a lot of tools because I haven't achieved what I want to with woodworking yet and think that I need more tools to get there. No real point, just an observation.

Cheers, Dom

That makes sense to me Dom. I think you're right. It's sort of a variant on the idea that "tools don't make the craftsman".

Fred

[James Pallas]

I own lots of tools. There are tools for all different trades from concrete, masonry, plumbing, electrical and woodworking. I’m lucky that I have a SIL to pass tools to who uses them. When I wear out a tool I replace it. When I buy a new or different tool I keep the old one until I’m sure I’m satisfied that the new “improved” tool will do the job. I’m now at the stage where there are jobs that I can no longer handle. So I pass the tools along. The rest i will keep until they are pulled from my cold, you know the rest.
Jim

[Alan Schwabacher]

Invite someone to your shop, and teach that person to do something. Usually, they will find some tool (frequently a plane) to be fun to use and useful. If you have extras, you can give them the tool they've been using. That is a pleasure you'll miss if you have a minimal toolkit.

[Mike Allen1010]

Andrew, you are not helping

Regards from Perth

Derek

Damn it Derek, that was good bourbon you just made me snort out my nose!
Cheers, Mike

[Patrick Walsh]

Andrew has this thing wired.

So,some said something about thinking you need this or thinking you need that when you start out. To a degree I agree. I also used to be a pro cyclist, I was a high level ameture for many more years Than pro but that’s another story. Point is I liked my kit. I think you are the type that likes “stuff” or the type that “stuff” does little for them.

Ok back to thinning the herd. So I like my tools, I like chisels, I like plains, I like saws, combo squares, machinist squares, marking knives bevel gauges, measuring apparatus. Sharpening this sharpening that. I also like my machines, no I loooooove my machines, I’d rather have the option to setup a machine and leave it than chase my tail trying to get a machine setup exactly again to reproduce a part when I screw it up somehow some way before I done with my project. Really I just like a excuse to “NEED” another tool to feed the deep broken hole I have inside I fill with stuff.

In all seriousness the longer I work wood two things happen. I learn how to actually use my tools. Second in doing so I learn there is like a million ways using a million different tools to achieve virtually the same task and that all the tools are not really needed but wanted. Well at least on my part that is. You can get most anything done with a couple saw, a few chisels and couple hand planes.

With all that said I like having options. I like my LN socket chisels when I need to really smack on something, I like to have Kiyohisa perfectly sharp and ready to go at all times for more delicate work. I then like to have the appropriate paring chisel sharp and ready at all times even though 90% of the time a socket chisels will also do the job. I like leaving my shaper setup hence I could be happy with five easily. Digital readout on everything helps much of this with machines but not all of it unless everything is tricked out with electronics and then for the price of that once machine I could have like thirty sweet used ones.

Someone said it above do what makes you happy. I often sell tolls to buy tools. I sell the ones I don’t use to buy the ones I think and hope I will use. It’s a viscous, fun and highly rewarding addictive cycle. As of late most all my festool stuff has gone. I use festool stuff to instal cabinetry for work purposes all the time but in my personal work I just don’t have much need for it. Pretty much down to a router a couple drills and a the kapex. The kapex will go when I get my new slider into the shop.