Paul Sellers an amateur woodworker

[Tom M King]

Aldren Watson for me, before there was an internet.

[Andrew Hughes]

I always thought Art Espenet Carpenter produced some nice work. I think he might have been the one to make up the bandsaw box.
He had a good soul and it showed in his work.
Another moden day master.
Here’s his wish bone chairs.

[Van Huskey]

If he were employed in your small, professional furniture shop I imagine that you could hand Sellers drawings and specs for a reasonably complex furniture job that he'd never made before, along with a time budget, and he would deliver the piece on budget and without having to buy a new tool, read a book to remind himself how to cut a certain joint, research Moxon, Nicholson, and Wearing as sanity checks for technique, decide he's ditching oilstones in favor of waterstones and everything else is on hold until this is complete, so on and so forth.

Very little head or a$$ scratching. Zero reinvention of various wheels.

Well, he wouldn't have the choice to make since he is fully invested in the diamond approach. His sharpening routine alone is enough to raise the ire of a lot of people.

[Van Huskey]

Respectfully, I would question the finality of that statement.

I can certainly see where some could argue he didn't start it but I think he turned up the volume more than anyone in print in recent years. His articles and blog have moved the needle considerably in many areas, not the least of which is bench design. The Schwarz since he is still in his discovery phase (many of us never leave it) has continually redefined the modern WWing bench. You will see his fluid influence all over the web. Then how can one argue the influence of Lost Art Press.

[Van Huskey]

No doubt about it on the first point, judging from the youtube following he has managed to create that no other hand-tool content creators before or after him have come close to achieving. I have no inside knowledge but the fact that he has moved to a new and much bigger studio suggests no other online classes are close to his in size.

Off the top of my head, one must at least acknowledge The Samurai Carpenter, while he has a different approach and not 100% handtool (though his content is pretty much 100% handtool) he does have basically twice as many subs as Paul.

I will say the way to youtube views and subs in the WWing arena is to build a beautiful and rather complex bench. It is usually the easiest way to 1m views. Third Coast Craftsman is an excellent example, his workbench video became his most watched video quickly and on its way to 1m.

[Richard Jones]

I can certainly see where some could argue he didn't start it but I think he turned up the volume more than anyone in print in recent years. His articles and blog have moved the needle considerably in many areas, not the least of which is bench design. The Schwarz since he is still in his discovery phase (many of us never leave it) has continually redefined the modern WWing bench. You will see his fluid influence all over the web. Then how can one argue the influence of Lost Art Press.

^^^ Don't get me wrong, I'm not demeaning or belittling the extent of his influence and I agree with @Van Huskey with the "turned up the volume" phrase. No doubt. I only disagreed with the statement as written, as if it were passed down from On High. I'm probably just misreading the internet "tone".

As far as Mr. Sellers, I don't agree with everything he says/does. As with anyone that I look at in woodworking, I take what I think is good and leave the rest. Isn't this pretty much true of anyone? There is no one in any hobby/sport/business that is infallible in every aspect. For instance, I use Chris Gochnour's 'method' (perhaps he didn't invent it, but I still like it and you have to call it something) of dovetailing as it seems straightforward and logical to me and the end results are what I'm looking for. Mr. Sellers' way isn't for me, at least at this stage of my journey. Is it the best for you? Maybe, maybe not. Your call, not mine.

"Anyone who thinks someone else in those days had influenced the interest in traditional woodworking (in the publishing world or social media) more than Chris is welcome to share their observations." Thanks for the permission, but it's not a contest, is it? If so, I hope there's a good prize, like a Sellers-refurbished #4 smoother or even a cheap Chinese 151.

I agree with his blog thoughts on 'amateur' as well. At least, most of them.............

Excellent thread, my thanks to the OP.

[Simon MacGowen]

Off the top of my head, one must at least acknowledge The Samurai Carpenter, while he has a different approach and not 100% handtool (though his content is pretty much 100% handtool) he does have basically twice as many subs as Paul.

I will say the way to youtube views and subs in the WWing arena is to build a beautiful and rather complex bench. It is usually the easiest way to 1m views. Third Coast Craftsman is an excellent example, his workbench video became his most watched video quickly and on its way to 1m.

I believe theirs are not online classes like Sellers' which you have to subscribe for a fee. I might be not clear enough when I wrote about Sellers' following.

Simon

[Simon MacGowen]

As far as Mr. Sellers, I don't agree with everything he says/does. As with anyone that I look at in woodworking, I take what I think is good and leave the rest. Isn't this pretty much true of anyone? There is no one in any hobby/sport/business that is infallible in every aspect. For instance, I use Chris Gochnour's 'method' (perhaps he didn't invent it, but I still like it and you have to call it something) of dovetailing as it seems straightforward and logical to me and the end results are what I'm looking for. Mr. Sellers' way isn't for me, at least at this stage of my journey. Is it the best for you? Maybe, maybe not. Your call, not mine.

I absolutely agree that cherry-picking (if you know what you are doing) is a very good way of improving skills, including most types of skills (at least that was how I learned from my bosses and mentors in the younger days; not every boss in my path was a model executive).

Sellers uses shop-made guides in some cases for dovetailing as well as mortising. Absolutely not my thing, though he was doing that to suit some of his less-experienced learners. But i think the approach is wrong-footed to start with. If the guide is really the approach, tell people to buy the magnetic guides from LV or Barron. But it is Sellers who popularized the "knife wall" technique even though some authors including Tage Frid (Vol. 1, I think) wrote about it long before him.

Yet there are indeed blind followers (not specific to Sellers), and they will nod even if their "masters" talk nonsense. I see endless examples of that in social media penned by the better known bloggers or instagramers, including the Festool instagram. Idolization came to mind.

Simon

[Richard Jones]

^^ Agree with all of that. Glad you mentioned about Mr. Frid. Indeed, I think that's the first time I ran across using a marking knife or chisel for chopping, paring, etc. Guess I should dust off that gem this weekend.

FWIW, my definition of amateur vs professional has always been very simplistic: amateurs as a hobby, pros get paid. Both can love what they do, and payment comes in many forms. Maybe I can become a professional amateur...........

[Simon MacGowen]

I will say the way to youtube views and subs in the WWing arena is to build a beautiful and rather complex bench. It is usually the easiest way to 1m views. Third Coast Craftsman is an excellent example, his workbench video became his most watched video quickly and on its way to 1m.

I don't understand why people need a "beautiful" bench...in fact too beautiful a bench would discourage one to work on it, in my view, just as is in the case of a boutique tool. Some people spend a huge amount of money or time on their benches. I never want to spend more time in doing shop work than in doing furniture pieces. May be that also explained partly why Shopnotes no longer existed....

A practical bench without any bells and whistles is good for me, but I must say I don't like benches that look more like a worn chopping board.

Simon

[Tony Wilkins]

Besides, I thought the term for both the videos and the woodworking was now properly ‘maker’.

[Frederick Skelly]

Besides, I thought the term for both the videos and the woodworking was now properly ‘maker’.

Only if you're a Millenial.

[steven c newman]

Not me.....I am just an average Amateur Wood Worker.....I don't even make videos...

[Van Huskey]

I believe theirs are not online classes like Sellers' which you have to subscribe for a fee. I might be not clear enough when I wrote about Sellers' following.

Simon

Jesse (The Samurai Carpenter) has an online "school", he calls it Samurai Skills. He seems to be set up using the Wood Whisperer model which is smart since Marc and his wife are the king and queen of monetizing WWing content creation. Looking at raw numbers Jesse almost certainly makes a good deal more money on youtube than Paul but the audience isn't exactly the same. There is quite a bit of money to be made on youtube if done right and you have to be lucky as well. AvE makes over $10K a month just via Patreon just doing his tool teardowns.

I certainly have no idea how many people are subscribing to an individuals paid classes so Paul may indeed have a much larger paid subscriber base.

[Derek Cohen]

It's really easy to get cynical about much of what is presented on YouTube under the disguise of Woodworking. It is the age of DIY video and bareing your innermost soul on the Internet (including these fori) for millions to view, and anyone with a smart phone can do it if they have chutzpah, nerve or are enough narcissism. Some are in it for the money, some the glamour and adhoration, and some just find this a way to communicate. Separating the wheat from the chaff is only an issue when you can tell - and care about - the difference, and this is the likely reason why those on fori such as this will end up so critical. I imagine that ohers do not take it so seriously.

Making videos is not an easy job. I take my hat off to those who make up the lack of substance with flash. Have you tried to make a video? I made a few to illustrate a few techniques. I think this effort produced 3 1/2 followers. It's a good thing I have a day job. Very amateurish. There's that word! I am clearly an amateur.

I suspect that it is common for those with hard-won skills - that take time and effort to develope - to feel resentful of those who claim the same expertise but appear to have found a shortcut. It happens in many domains. It is rife on the woodworking fori, but it is the same in professions such as mine - for example, I read psych reports every day where it is evident that diagnoses were based on some new ubeaut psychometric test - usually a bunch of them - where I may (with 40 years of experience) just ask a few questions, taking a fraction of the time. I imagine it is the same in engineering, education (well, I kjnow the answer to this one), drafting, and a few others that come to mind. Craftsmanship in joinery is easily replaced by one of the many joinery machines that are available today ... biscuits, dominos ... table saw cut finger joints instead of handcut dovetails ....

There has long been religeous wars of some kind in all walks of life. They abound in woodwork, with hand vs power as one common example. Clearly to me it is more often about the amateur joining a group and having a conferred status than a professional attitude. I attended a joinery workshop last weekend run by a friend of mine, who is a professional furniture maker - there's that word again. He builds furniture for a living. High end stuff, and he is good at it. Very good. He also in demand to run workshops for LN in the USA. He is not a plonker. We talked about what makes the better joint, dovetails or finger joints? It is by far the finger joint. Simply, there is more glue area. Which is stronger, an agricultural-looking 1:5 dovetail joint or a "London" slim 1:8? Again, it is the slim 1:8 .. because there is less end grain and more side grain involved. There is a place for dominos ... he is one of the best I have seen with a dovetail saw, but he loves the Domino machine. He has jigs for a router table and shaper. In short, he uses all tools that get him across the line of time without sacrificing quality. He does not appear to have a side to take with regard to tools, on the other hand he would be just as outspoken about poor grain matching, ill-chosen joinery methods, and poorly though through design. I would argue that the "professional" has learned this. "Amateurish" becomes an obvious opposite.

I think I had better end this ramble at this point. I am hoping there is some response to the points I made (did I make points or just vent?).

Regards from Perth

Derek