Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 113

Thread: Paul Sellers an amateur woodworker

  1. #31
    Mark, not sure if you intentionally misread my comment. I didn't say all popularity or fame is synonymous with genius or great skill. I said Maloof's particular genius is exemplified by the popularity and frequent imitation of his designs. I intentionally left out any discussion of his skill as a woodworker, both because I don't consider myself able to have any valid opinion on that front and because I don't consider "genius" to equate with "most skilled." Maybe u do, which fits with my suggestion that all these terms are ineluctably subjective.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    LA & SC neither one is Cali
    Posts
    9,447
    I always think discussions of genius are rather stilted. Discussion of the best are even worse. I always smile when a discussion of the greatest basketball player occurs and the discussion centers around players like Michael, Lebron, Chamberlain, Dr. J, Kareem and Russell. My smile is that most likely the best basketball player ever never played in the NBA and spent their life balling on some court like Rucker Park. The NBA requires one to step through certain hoops and some people aren't good with metaphorical hoops even if they are sublime at handling basketball hoops. I think Maloof's artistic vision within a craft was genius but it is subjective, and there is probably several Joe Hammonds* out there to Sam's Dr J. You can only judge what you are aware of.

    * Joe "The Destroyer" was a famous Rucker player who put 50 points on Julius Irving in one game at The Rucker. How does one rank Randy Johnson or Babe Ruth without acknowledging Satchel Page or Josh Gibson? In the end, I think it is fair to suggest Sam was a genius but if someone cares to be a contrarian that is fair too. I usually do think it is incumbent on the "anti" to suggest a genius in their eyes since it leads to a more spirited discussion, it is a little too easy to say Patton was not a military genius without a counter suggestion of one who actually was/is in their view.


    It is funny how the discussion of "professional" woodworkers seems to always lean to the semantic. I started a thread with a poll years ago to just get an idea of how many on SMC used WWing as their main source of income, I foolishly listed it as pro vs amateur and the VAST majority of the thread was devoted to the definition of professional. Some thought is required producing "professional" work others saw it as one that derives some/most/all of their income via woodwork of some fashion.

    As for Paul I see him primarily as a professional content creator (though I admit I don't know his full story) just like Logan Paul or Casey Neistat but nowhere near as successful, which in and of itself seems odd but understandable in today's world.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Longview WA
    Posts
    27,347
    Blog Entries
    1
    it is a little too easy to say Patton was not a military genius without a counter suggestion of one who actually was/is in their view.
    This could lend credence to the idea of genius not being anything more than people seeing ways to use common sense to great effect.

    Of course for some common sense is awe inspiring.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Inkerman, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,389
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Rathhaus View Post
    Mark, not sure if you intentionally misread my comment. I didn't say all popularity or fame is synonymous with genius or great skill. I said Maloof's particular genius is exemplified by the popularity and frequent imitation of his designs. I intentionally left out any discussion of his skill as a woodworker, both because I don't consider myself able to have any valid opinion on that front and because I don't consider "genius" to equate with "most skilled." Maybe u do, which fits with my suggestion that all these terms are ineluctably subjective.
    Eric,
    sorry if i have misread or misrepresented what you said.

    I do believe that all of the terms attributed to Sam, Jim and George are meant to be interpreted in relation to the level of their woodworking skills.
    Last edited by Mark Hennebury; 11-12-2018 at 1:47 PM.

  5. #35
    What an interesting thread!

    Aren't we simply saying that Amount of Fame Doesn't Necessarily Equate to Level of Skill? If so, I think several of us agree on that. (Loved the basketball story Van!) Is the Wood Whisperer more skilled than our own George Wilson, Brian Holcome, Derek Cohen or any of a dozen others? And how are we gonna measure that? What constitutes skill and how do you compare 2 people's skills? That's a whole other kettle of fish, and another long thread!

    I like Maloof's work. I like Krenov's. I like them because the shapes, textures, finishes and details connect with me. I don't like them because they're famous. But I probably "discovered" them because they were famous - they got the publicity, maybe because others saw them and felt connected to the work. It doesn't bug me that some foundation recognized Maloof - they didn't say he was a genius. They said his work was nice and wanted to support it. Ok. Their money, their rules.

    Fred
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

    “If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.”

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    3,737
    Well said Fred.
    Aj

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Inkerman, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,389
    Quote Originally Posted by Van Huskey View Post
    . I usually do think it is incumbent on the "anti" to suggest a genius in their eyes since it leads to a more spirited discussion, it is a little too easy to say Patton was not a military genius without a counter suggestion of one who actually was/is in their view.
    Van, you have made some good points.

    I'm game; as the "anti" I hereby do my duty and submit for you consideration, Finn Juhl ( I believe that Sam would approve.)

    Born January 30th in Denmark
    Died May 17th 1989 in Denmark
    "He was one of the leading figures in the creation of "Danish design" in the 1940s and he was the designer who introduced Danish Modern to America. "

    45-Chair-Finn-Juhl-01.jpg

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick Skelly View Post
    Is the Wood Whisperer more skilled...
    Fred
    !

    Simon
    Last edited by Simon MacGowen; 11-12-2018 at 4:32 PM.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    7,254
    Blog Entries
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hennebury View Post
    Van, you have made some good points.

    I'm game; as the "anti" I hereby do my duty and submit for you consideration, Finn Juhl ( I believe that Sam would approve.)

    Born January 30th in Denmark
    Died May 17th 1989 in Denmark
    "He was one of the leading figures in the creation of "Danish design" in the 1940s and he was the designer who introduced Danish Modern to America. "

    45-Chair-Finn-Juhl-01.jpg
    Agree completely, though I’m a fan of both. I find it interesting that Finn Juhl’s early designs (Pelican chair specifically ) were initially rejected but ultimately accepted and eventually became synonymous with Danish modernism. His along with Wegner’s acceptance in the US were hard won, but without them the California crowd’s work may look much different (imo).
    Last edited by Brian Holcombe; 11-12-2018 at 6:40 PM.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    LA & SC neither one is Cali
    Posts
    9,447
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hennebury View Post
    Van, you have made some good points.

    I'm game; as the "anti" I hereby do my duty and submit for you consideration, Finn Juhl ( I believe that Sam would approve.)

    Born January 30th in Denmark
    Died May 17th 1989 in Denmark
    "He was one of the leading figures in the creation of "Danish design" in the 1940s and he was the designer who introduced Danish Modern to America. "

    45-Chair-Finn-Juhl-01.jpg
    Ah, the 45 chair. Given Danish Modern and MCM are the two greatest influences in my work you will not find a counter-argument to Juhl's genius from me! As Brian pointed out the California boys work would likely be far different without Juhl et al. I am not a huge fan of his chairs, though mainly because of the amount of upholstery, something I would buy but not attempt to make. My wife is a fan of the Chieftain chair along with the 48 and Baker Sofas. His sideboard and Glove cabinet speak more to me, although I have used dyed veneer instead of paint for a softer less bold look.

    For me, I see genius in many woodworkers, even occasionally from youtube creators (especially in the MCM arena that exploded during the youtube expansion). Comparing genius is hard, just like recognizing and agreeing on genius. Michael was better on defense and Dr. J was better on offense but I would rather watch Irving play because I think offense is beautiful and defense is ugly and dirty, I am sure others vehemently disagree. I guess some people love Louis XIV and hate Danish Modern, such is life.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

  11. This reminds me of The Highland Woodworker referring to Christopher Schwarz as a "master" woodworker. It really made me cringe, and probably made Chris cringe too.

    http://thehighlandwoodworker.com/the...er-episode-38/

  12. #42
    I have a load of respect for Paul Sellers, but can't agree with him on being an amateur.
    From his writing, he's been through the formal apprenticeship and journeyman stages under strict masters of the trade.
    He's more than qualified to be a master of the craft.

    I think that this qualifies the biblical teachings of--don't puff yourself up, lest others tear you down. Instead, let others praise your name.

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    LA & SC neither one is Cali
    Posts
    9,447
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Lau View Post
    I have a load of respect for Paul Sellers, but can't agree with him on being an amateur.
    From his writing, he's been through the formal apprenticeship and journeyman stages under strict masters of the trade.
    He's more than qualified to be a master of the craft.

    I think that this qualifies the biblical teachings of--don't puff yourself up, lest others tear you down. Instead, let others praise your name.
    This is where we come full circle back to semantics. Does some entity confer the title of master woodworker? If so does he hold it? What is a strict master? A Master Plumber is a master plumber but it doesn't mean they are a genius plumber nor even a professional (as in does plumbing for money), but it does mean they should be able to do professional level plumbing, whatever that means.

    In my mind amateur does not mean less than it simply means that one doesn't do it directly for money. All these adjectives are purely subjective unless and entity bestows a title, and while it is still likely subjective it should be based on some agreed-upon criteria.

    If Sellers sells his work for a significant portion of his business then he in my mind is a professional woodworker, if he derives the vast majority of his income from youtube and other teaching then to me he is not a professional woodworker, he is a professional content creator and or teacher. Then again as I have pointed out I don't think amateur necessarily means less than. I know plenty of woodworkers that are far more skilled than many woodworkers that make all their income from woodworking. Paul may be being humble or he may simply be being factual when he uses amateur. It is an interesting query but at the same time it will be difficult or impossible to get everyone to agree on the meaning of all these adjectives/nouns.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    7,254
    Blog Entries
    7
    WRT titles, they may be meaningful to clients and students. I’m occasionally asked about my background, it’s usually in casual conversation but it’s not unusual to ask where someone came about their knowledge base.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  15. #45
    I fully respect worked perfected by my ancestors. Most often perfection is never duplicated. Perfection with art and science behind it becomes a law. I highly respect Newton, Galileo, Tesla, Ford, Mouton, Edison, Marette. I’m also very interested how Napoleon and Hitler created the following so strong. Napoleon was a very smart man with a in the ability to influence. Bring this onto modern-day… Give a man with a good vocals and platforms, can sell ice to an Eskimo. With modern day technology and the proper false promises and a couple million dollars in your pocket you can run a nation. There is gold around every corner. Just fool your customers and be able to sleep well every night... Arts, technology and laws of the world....

    My rule of thumb is pushing yourself properly and give back to your community the best you can. You will be remembered like a Mike Holmes.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •