Paul Sellers an amateur woodworker

[Eric Rathhaus]

Hi Derek - I do have one response, which is quite pedantic. But I believe the plural of forum, a second declension noun, is fora.

[Frederick Skelly]

A well written and interesting ramble Derek! I liked this point: "In short, he uses all tools that get him across the line of time without sacrificing quality." To me, this illustrates two key components of being a professional - high quality work, done as a way to make a living. Just because I make a living doing construction (for example), doesn't make me a pro. There are lotsa shlocks (plonkers?) doing construction and remodelling.

Aside: I still don't get why Sellers calls himself an amateur.

Fred

[Derek Cohen]

Thanks Fred.

Aside: I still don't get why Sellers calls himself an amateur.

Sellers can call himself whatever he wants. I believe that he has earned the right to do so. As did Sam Maloof, who referred to himself as "a woodworker".

Sellers will divide woodworkers because he is many things (and represents many groups). He is a hand tooler who eschews power in public (yet it seems that he has power tools and uses them in private). He espouses common and basic tools (such as his beloved #4 over all others). Some will love the simplicity and focus on basic craftsmanship, while others see this as an unnecessary oversimplification which ignores the value of better tools (such as a #7 or a decent shoulder plane) or hard won hand skills (without the jigs he uses for joinery). He preaches to the beginner and those who are starting out without funds, and yet is building a financial empire on their backs. The cynical part of me sees his use of "lifestyle" and "amateur" as a sales gimmick, a schtick. Another says that he brings a lot of pleasure to many, and that is a good thing.

With so many contradictions, he is bound to to get up the nose of someone.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Simon MacGowen]

Hi Derek - I do have one response, which is quite pedantic. But I believe the plural of forum, a second declension noun, is fora.

Depends on whether or not one believes in the case of reality winning over idealism: https://grammarist.com/usage/fora-forums/

A friend of mine, a veteran in journalism and part-time instructor, insists that most senior newspaper editors he knows will substitute "fora" with "forums" without a second thought.

Simon

[Warren Mickley]

Depends on whether or not one believes in the case of reality winning over idealism: https://grammarist.com/usage/fora-forums/

A friend of mine, a veteran in journalism and part-time instructor, insists that most senior newspaper editors he knows will substitute "fora" with "forums" without a second thought.

Simon

I doubt Eric would have said anything if Derek had used the term forums. But Derek wrote fori, which is the plural of forus, not the plural of forum.

[Edwin Santos]

Aside: I still don't get why Sellers calls himself an amateur.

Fred

Hi Fred,
I'd offer you two answers -
1. He's an amateur woodworker but a professional educator. He appears to earn income from educating, but not from building things out of wood for clients as a trade per se.

2. Paul Sellers is British, and the (traditional) distinction between amateur and professional in the UK is different than that in the United States. To simplify the distinction, in traditional Britain, the professional is a tradesman, who may be very competent, but is still a tradesman fulfilling a task on a repetitive basis in the performance of a trade. An amateur is working for a higher purpose, perhaps like an artist, for the love of and commitment to the craft. In this definition, the factor of money and income only degrades the purity of this commitment. This attitude is commonly held by artists. I would bet good money (ha!) that Sellers aspires to this latter definition being a purist and traditionalist. Maybe his reference has more to do with attitude than literal pay vs. no pay.

These are just my speculations, but there you have them. I wonder if David Charlesworth could illuminate us further on whether the cultural theory holds any water. Best,
Edwin

BTW, I met Mr. Krenov and attended one of his lectures. He unequivocally referred to himself as an amateur woodworker. By way of example, he said he made and gave away dozens, maybe hundreds of hand planes, pouring his care into the construction of each, and would never dream of charging money for one. Although he didn't care for the term artist either.

[Derek Cohen]

I doubt Eric would have said anything if Derek had used the term forums. But Derek wrote fori, which is the plural of forus, not the plural of forum.

I hang my head in shame I usually use "fora". May I plead a senior moment?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Edwin Santos]

My smile is that most likely the best basketball player ever never played in the NBA and spent their life balling on some court like Rucker Park. The NBA requires one to step through certain hoops and some people aren't good with metaphorical hoops even if they are sublime at handling basketball hoops. I think Maloof's artistic vision within a craft was genius but it is subjective, and there is probably several Joe Hammonds* out there to Sam's Dr J. You can only judge what you are aware of.

Making a case for the (troubled) genius of Earl "The Goat" Manigault

[Simon MacGowen]

I hang my head in shame I usually use "fora". May I plead a senior moment?

Regards from Perth

Derek

I did see your use of "fori" but thought it was a typo (as in a mistake of typing).

Simon

[Simon MacGowen]

Hi Fred,
I'd offer you two answers -
1. He's an amateur woodworker but a professional educator. He appears to earn income from educating, but not from building things out of wood for clients as a trade per se.

His current main source of income is indeed from his Masterclasses (youtube, too, I guess). But before he started teaching in the US, he made wooden products to sell...one of which was walking canes, lots of them, by the hundreds to State Parks and Wildlife Parks, gift shops and tourist centers alone. He could make thousands of dollars selling canes and whatnot in just a weekend at a wood/craft festival or the like in Texas(?) back in the old days.

But his more famous story was that he was commissioned to make a few furniture pieces for the White House's Permanent Collection 10 years ago or so. Quite an achievement for a fellow who is not an American.

These days no fellows can draw people to buy a woodworking tool (known or little known, new or vintage) than two woodworkers through social media: One is Sellers (and the other is Schwarz). Sellers could have made product sponsorship another major source of his income if he had gone that path. Look at what happened to the Aldi chisels. For the record, Sellers does not promote wax or stickers.

Simon

[Mark Hennebury]

There are craftsmen in business and businessmen in crafts.

[Matt Mattingley]

There are craftsmen in business and businessmen in crafts.

I couldn’t not have said this any better. Mark,you’ve hit this with a homerun!!!

The problem I have is, when your the top 2% don’t portray yourself as an novice.

My point is... would you rather Wayne Gretzky be your mentor or the shady guy “just as a fill-in” on the other team?

I have a pro basketball video that switched the odds for entertainment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ01b2ZDBVY

or

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvR2pbU2sdU

or

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6gXCjRXMss

[Van Huskey]

Making a case for the (troubled) genius of Earl "The Goat" Manigault

When Kareem says you are the best player ever one needs to take notice...

Earl encapsulated my point in a quote "For every Michael Jordan, there's an Earl Manigualt. We all can't make it. Someone has to fail. I was the one"

[Van Huskey]

By the way we have another July 25th 1965... during this threads life Paul has gone electric, just like Dylan did over 50 years ago. He did pick the correct machine though... and I will be watching the bandsaw videos intently.

[Richard Jones]

Derek wrote: ".......In short, he uses all tools that get him across the line of time without sacrificing quality..................."

Mr. Skelly also quoted this (see above). I would dare to modify it a bit: "........In short, he uses all tools and techniques that get him across the line of time without sacrificing quality....." I hope I'm not overstepping here.