Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 19

Thread: min thickness for the back profile on cabinet door?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    I live in NH
    Posts
    104

    min thickness for the back profile on cabinet door?

    Hello all. I am trying to setup my shaper with a panel cutter bit that runs with a back cutter. The style of bit is a flat angel but im not sure if its 18 or 15 degrees. So the issue im having is this, when i set the bit flush with the rail and stile face. while leaving the small 90 degree edge that brings that slope on the raised panel cutter to the top of the panel leaving a small 90 degree edge around the middle of the panel. it leaves such a narrow piece of wood on the back of the rail and stile that im not sure if its too small and i have the wrong bit? I would buy the proper one in a min but im not sure if this is wrong or not. Can anyone tell me the min. thickness for that back part of the profile cut on the rail and stiles ? or any other info to help me figure this out.
    also i should state that im using a frued cutter that came with a shaper i bought and i just had it sharpened. im using this with a MLCS back cutter.

    thanks for any help guys.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Tasmania
    Posts
    2,162
    Can you do a pencil sketch of your profile with some dimensions? It will help with sorting the problem. Cheers

  3. #3
    I'm left with a bit over an 1/8" holding the panel in on the backside with a 3/4" thick door. We run the same dimensions on all profiles.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Modesto, CA, USA
    Posts
    9,876
    On the shaper sets I have the tongue is a hair less depth then the groove it mates into. This is also a hair under the depth of the cut as seem from the front face.
    Bill D.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
    Posts
    1,933
    Sounds like the cutter set is made for thicker rail/stile stock. Or more likely, you are combining a mission / shaker style cope / stick set with a raised panel when it is designed to run the groove closer to center combined with a flat panel.

    1/8" would be the absolute minimum that is typically left on the back side of the groove. I like to finish at 5/32" or more.
    JR

  6. #6
    if you are worried its weak then machine your material thicker if you can. That said there was a time it was easier, 4/4 was a certain thickness at times up to 1 3/16" rough so to make your rail and style to 7/8" say you could do that. I think the door makers are at 13/16" for the most part so that alone would give you a bit more meat. What you are experiencing is one the draw backs of cope and stick cutters. By their nature they have to place the tongue to the back of the profile, its a given right off the bat, no way around it so if you want more meat you need thicker material. Its one of the reasons I dont use those cutters. That statement will change for me when I get a full size heads that make a tennon not a tongue and using material thickness that allows you to center it.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
    Posts
    1,933
    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Lake View Post
    What you are experiencing is one the draw backs of cope and stick cutters. By their nature they have to place the tongue to the back of the profile, its a given right off the bat, no way around it so if you want more meat you need thicker material.
    This is the type of cope and stick that I thought OP was talking about. You can put the T&G anywhere you want. But if you try to use a raised panel, then you are stuck with a thin back. I leave it to the customer to tell me where to put it - centered for best strength, or offset towards the back like this sample.

    JR

  8. #8
    all the cope and stick put the tongue to where it has to be based on the profile. you are right with that style you can drop it to what you want, other styles with a step you wont have a choice if you want the step or how much that step is. You determine how far you want to drop it for the look you want. if you do a raised panel the old guys made the panels lower than the rails and styles.

  9. #9
    Not really related, but I hate that profile that JR posted so much. The glue line never seems to disappear the way it does when the rail goes into a shoulder.

  10. #10
    its related and good point, ill go one further the reason that big door companies dont stand behind lines telegraphing back through at the rail and style joint is because of cope and stick. It simply doesnt have the stability of a tennon and mortise door joint.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
    Posts
    1,933
    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Wasner View Post
    Not really related, but I hate that profile that JR posted so much. The glue line never seems to disappear the way it does when the rail goes into a shoulder.
    I have not had that issue. One of my customers just used this for paint grade doors. I made sure that there was a tiny bit of glue along the knife edge of the rails and let them dry over the weekend. They turned out great. Maybe the devil is in the details on this profile. Great Lakes made these inserts for me and they seem to be ground so that the joint line is *very* tight at the face. No visible glue line.
    JR

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
    Posts
    1,933
    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Lake View Post
    its related and good point, ill go one further the reason that big door companies dont stand behind lines telegraphing back through at the rail and style joint is because of cope and stick. It simply doesnt have the stability of a tennon and mortise door joint.
    What kind of lines? Raised "glue creep", or a shrunken line at the joint, or a "crack" type line?
    JR

  13. #13
    I wasnt talking that profile just general glue line telegraphing back through, not my issue but I see it often and have read in the past, at one point emailed a few major door makers. Friend got a vanity and kitchen and its disgusting the vanity came with most of the glue lines showing through.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
    Posts
    1,933
    Yeah, I see what you mean. A lot of big produces take doors out of the clamp right to the sander, then the glue line gets telegraphed through the finish.
    JR

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R. Rutter View Post
    I have not had that issue. One of my customers just used this for paint grade doors. I made sure that there was a tiny bit of glue along the knife edge of the rails and let them dry over the weekend. They turned out great. Maybe the devil is in the details on this profile. Great Lakes made these inserts for me and they seem to be ground so that the joint line is *very* tight at the face. No visible glue line.
    Could've been a multitude of things at play causing the ones I made to have so many problems. It was a long time ago at a another shop I was working at. They got painted as well, but I remember the glue lines when being sanded being obnoxiously large.

    I swore off that profile because of my experience with it.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •