Vintage Martin T75 restoration

[Darcy Warner]

Good old hand translated martin manuals. I have a few with white out over words, pictures cut out and glued in etc.

Too many times I witness the blind dissasmbly of a machine, just because and it either take years to put back together or get hung up on something that could have been sorted before making one piece into 500.

I would set it up, clean, adjust, take inventory of all the little things that need attention or repaired and go from there. These are big saws with lots of parts.

I dont like a paint job just for a paint job. You only get the natural wear and patina once on a machine.

I have a 30" buss planer that is my user, original paint, but it is worn off tops of the frame so much the castings are almost polished, the top of motor is worn shiny from lumber being slid across it. I wanted to paint it, but I can just picture all the lumber slid across it, guys leaning on it shooting the breeze, etc. and cant bring myself to do it. It runs like a dream.

[Brian Holcombe]

Yes, be careful when you take things apart. I like to do small disassemblies and take pictures of the process so that I can refer to them later. You never know how useful they are until a month later when you’re ‘wondering about that shim’ or what have you. Disassembly is as important as assembly and careful documentation is key. Often enough I will loose reassemble right after breaking the part down so that I don’t forget how it goes back together.

Rather than break the machine down to bolts you can break down and restore individual sections, like the fence, motor, sliding assembly individually then restore and set them aside. I do this wherever practical. You can restore the entire machine in sub-assemblies and it will help you from feeling overwhelmed.

By the time I sold my 67 Camaro I could tell you where a bolt came from by its style and measure, but when you’re first getting into a new machine your knowledge base is more surface level (what you can read and see in photos) after you break a few of them down it becomes more tactile. When I started the car I just built one section at a time beginning with the differential and rear suspension, bought a new housing, worked it up to what I wanted. When everything was prepped I took the old one out and restored the back half of the car, then back together again. Did the same on the front half of the car, then did the middle. After which I did the interior. At the same time I know other fellows who were breaking the entire thing down to components then restoring from the ground up, a fine way to go once you really know those cars well.

So my point is that I think it wise to get your feet wet with the small parts and get them perfect before you move on to the mass of the machine, it's backwards from how one would approach it professionally but gives you a chance to build up familiarity and experience before going 'whole hog'.

Im not experienced in industrial machines, but have worked on many a car and engine, so I’m speaking from that experience.

[Jim Becker]

I kinda agree with Brian...the less you can take things apart, the better, so once you have the machine in-house (literally ), the first thing I'd be doing is checking all those alignment things and smooth operation things to see if it's dialed-in or close enough to just adjust and also clean/lubricate for the smoothness. You may not need to do any more than that if you are truly lucky and that means you can get to using it or then decide if you want to spiff up the look or not.

[Patrick Walsh]

Jim, Brian, Darcy..

My plan has been to start small.

I have the loose bits of the machine that can easily be removed with kip levers and the such. Mostly the sliding table extrusions and support and all the accessories. I’m tempted to get into these pieces and start disassembling, stripping, sandblasting what have you before I dive into the machine proper.

My intuition is as suggested above and to first get the whole machine in my possession set it up plug it in make some cuts and check my workpieces and see what I come up with. Based on that I’ll get out the straight edges and dial indicators.

Then and only then I’ll decide exactly what I’m gonna and not gonna do. I see not point in stripping down the random piece her and there only to find I decide I don’t want to restore the whole machine to brand new condition. To be honest I’m prepared to and inclined to do a full restoration as I know long term that’s what I’ll be most happy with. On the other hand I do understand the value in a vintage machine in good condition with all its years of patina and character. I like and appreciate both so I guess we will see when I take possession of the machine in a couple weeks.

Right now I’m busy building a Krenov style cabinet for my dog that passed a few weeks ago ashes. I’m sure this could keep me busy for a couple more months of my free time. Beyond that I have like 8-9 interior passage doors and jambs to make over the winter. As you can see I’m a busy guy.

All the while I’m scamming and scheming on how the heck I can purchase the t23 shaper I found before someone else gets to it. I’ll so freaking bummed as I don’t think they come up often. The two machines just in working order would be a dream to me and save me like $70-80k compared to my plan to purchase brand new.

[peter gagliardi]

IF you take it apart, there are a few areas to pay attention to:
The rise and fall has a tube assembly with a coil spring inside , if I remember correctly. It is pretty strong, and a bit tricky to get apart and back together without getting hurt.
The two piece front adjusting wheels can also be tricky to dis, and re-assemble. Lining some of it up takes some care.

But, by far, the sliding table races will probably take hours, or even days to get accurately set up again.

With good dust collection, the tilt and rise and fall will work perfectly for years with regular lubrication.

Congrats!, and enjoy what I have found to be the most enjoyable old cast iron full size slider out there to use, even without the high tech gadgets.

[Patrick Walsh]

Peter,

I took notice of the spring assembly reading Mr. Heneberry’s thread on his T-17 restoration. I am sure I will be asking a couple exact questions regarding how to safely get the cast top off and the spring apart without breaking anything including myself. I would imagine a spring compressor of some sort much like when removing a spring that is compressed onto a strut?

When I went to look at the machine I did take a look inside the machine. It was dark but I was able to use my phone to get some light. The first thing I noticed was the large shaft/rod and spring assembly. I thought “oh boy” that’s gonna be fun, yikes!

I was pleasantly surprised at just how new things looked under there though. The chains and gears that control the rise fall and tilt we’re much more massive that I would have expected even after seeing pictures. They were however much cleaner than I would had thought being the rise and fall was not effortless to operate.

Can you specify races regarding getting the tables aligned. I would imagine you are talking about whatever bearings are mounted to the cast sliding table and or trapped between the sliding table and extrusion it rides on. To be honest I have no idea other than the small flat metal rips that are glued to either surface what the sling table mechanics are comprised of. On more modern sliders I am able to see a wheel on a bearing of some sort. I imagine this machine is much the same. I know at least one of these metal strips will require some attention as it is coming free. Oddly enough in the Martin manual it refers to these metal tracks the slider runs on and how to remglue them and with what to use in the event they should come loose.

You kinda have me nervous with your coment re aligning the sliding table but I suppose the same will go for any machine new or used if things are not to my liking. It will be a learning experience and skill I feel I should have being what I do for a living and for fun for that matter. Relaxing on machinery technicians to service a working shops machines is not practical. Often it’s also disappointing as most techs opinion regarding Woodworking machinery is “its wood not metal” and thus good enough even when it’s still to working optimally.

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IF you take it apart, there are a few areas to pay attention to:
The rise and fall has a tube assembly with a coil spring inside , if I remember correctly. It is pretty strong, and a bit tricky to get apart and back together without getting hurt.
The two piece front adjusting wheels can also be tricky to dis, and re-assemble. Lining some of it up takes some care.

But, by far, the sliding table races will probably take hours, or even days to get accurately set up again.

With good dust collection, the tilt and rise and fall will work perfectly for years with regular lubrication.

Congrats!, and enjoy what I have found to be the most enjoyable old cast iron full size slider out there to use, even without the high tech gadgets.

[peter gagliardi]

I do not know how your races are on that era saw. Mine are one piece blocks of steel about 1- 1 1/4” square by 8’ long with vees milled the length. The balls ride in the races for the length of slide. There are adjusting nuts, locknuts and threaded studs every few inches along the length to hold and adjust the races to get the slider in perfect alignment with the main saw.
It sounds like you may have a newer, more wear resistant version similar to my PreX.

If you do tackle the sliding carriage, feeler gauges, dial indicators and precision straightedges need to be in your toolkit.

[Patrick Walsh]

WOW!

That sounds like fun.....

NOT.

But it sounds like if I go the full restoration route I’m gonna be forced into it.

Thanks again.

Any idea what a good condition 70-80’s t23 is worth?

I do not know how your races are on that era saw. Mine are one piece blocks of steel about 1- 1 1/4” square by 8’ long with vees milled the length. The balls ride in the races for the length of slide. There are adjusting nuts, locknuts and threaded studs every few inches along the length to hold and adjust the races to get the slider in perfect alignment with the main saw.
It sounds like you may have a newer, more wear resistant version similar to my PreX.

If you do tackle the sliding carriage, feeler gauges, dial indicators and precision straightedges need to be in your toolkit.

[Darcy Warner]

WOW!

That sounds like fun.....

NOT.

But it sounds like if I go the full restoration route I’m gonna be forced into it.

Thanks again.

Any idea what a good condition 70-80’s t23 is worth?

Apparently around 7k.

Gomads version of that shaper looks almost identical and was an awesome machine. One of the most underrated manufacturers out there.

[Patrick Walsh]

And where do you get the apparently from.

I take it you must also be aware of the machine I am speaking of?

[Darcy Warner]

And where do you get the apparently from.

I take it you must also be aware of the machine I am speaking of?

Not much gets by my radar.

[Darcy Warner]

Ok, maybe 900 more than 7k....

[Warren Lake]

third attempt guess no words nothing sticks






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[peter gagliardi]

And for 7900, it better be just about perfect, especially if no tenoning table.
I have always liked the Gomads- built really well.

[Darcy Warner]

third attempt guess no words nothing sticks






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Great machine right there. Simple, easy to use, built like a tank.