Vintage Martin T75 restoration

[Patrick Walsh]

Well considering I don’t really relax when I actually stop and relax I have read myself silly today.

Early in the day I put two and two together. I can’t believe it took me two weeks to put the two and two together i did today but to be honest I’m just glad I did before I had a real problem. Who knows maybe I would have gotten away with it as I am that guy with countless lives and should be dead 100 times over, no make that 500 times over. Clearly the exposure to all the crap over the years has rendered my brain activity limited lol as I know all about this stuff I just didn’t correlate the two.

So the problem with Imron is largely in the isocycanates. If I misspelled it’s clearly not the first time as everyone is aware. Anyway as from and from working as or around custom home building and or builders over the years yada yada I know full well about lycenen spray foam insulation.

As it was explained to me once the stuff is much like gorilla glue or polyurethane glue. You know the stuff water needs to activate. Also the stuff that hardens onto your hands and you have to sand and chew off. I trimmed out a few houses a few years back using those crap pos Borel trim boards made of fly ash. Yup more toxic stuff I inhallled for months on end in the freeezing cold for something like $1000 a week. And yup ore stuff that will not last worth a crap and will be in a landfill sooner than later. And yup more stuff that when being replaced some day the guy probably won’t know a dam thing about and will subject himself to the toxicity of it along with the earth when it’s just thrown In a dumpster. If you don’t know about borel its flu]y ash and you guessed it polyurithane mixed together into boards. If you don’t know what fly ash is look it up. It’s the by product of coal mining we are not allowed to dispose of in anyway and just accumulates in massive piles with nothing to do with it till this Borel company stated wrapping our houses in it. Nice really nice kinda like spray foam that will be manned by R values at some point and just another thing to kill us all.

Actually that winter was brutal. We literally got so much snow we would have to dig snow trenches around the house. By mid December the snow bank around the house was like ten feet tall or more. A whole winter of digging slipping and sliding on ice from the freeze thaw cycle resulted in a shoveled path much akin to a skating rink. Man that year sucked but I did some pretty dam nice trim work considering the work conditions. Life has taught me t find enjoyment in suffering.

Anyway back to poison. So it was explained to me that those whom spray spray foam and do not use proper respiratory protection have a simular experience or actually the exact same experience we have on our hands with polyurethane glue on the inside of their lungs. The moisture in the lungs activates the stuff and it hardens on and the body for whatever reason does not process it off and it’s pretty much permanent. One guy also told me that early on when spray foam insulation first came on the market a full face resperator was not specified. As a result the eyes and skin would absorb the material. His guys would complain that when driving back to the shop after working the day any light from a car or street light would all have purple orbs around them. I put this together today when I looked out the window at the house being built next door and noticed them spraying Insulation.

So needless to say I’ll be wearing a tyvek suit, head sock, gloves and a full fresh air face mask when spraying this crap. I figure if I buy that HobbyAir kit and nix the $1000 SATAjet 5000rp In lue of a Devilbliss Teknapro it should be a wash and I don’t have to worry about this anymore.


Nor do any of you have to worry anymore that I now fully understand what I’m playing with. Its just money after all and viscous cycle of earn spend earn spend that’s not ever gonna end so the hell with it. I’m so good as spending the stuff on a consistent basis what’s another $600-2k to proceeed as I am and want to with this project. The boss just gave the heads up I’ll probably be back on 60-70 hr weeks if I want in the next few weeks for the next number of weeks to months. Be that the case that kind of money is a drop in the bucket for my health.

[Patrick Walsh]

Filler, sand filler, sand, filler sand.

I made some really good headway today. It’s really hard to calla part done with all these parts. I normally a very focused one thing at a time kinda guy. In the case of the filler work here it makes much more sense to smear everything that needs filler let it harden reall good and go to town sanding.

The result is you end up sanding a piece knowing it needs more fill here and there but moving onto another piece then dropping back to fill everything again. As a result even though your getting a lot done it can feel like your getting nothing actually done.

I am way ahead of the game with the fill and sanding on these pieces than I thought I would be at this point. I’d say I’ll have everything filled, masking redone and ready for the polyester coat by next weekend.


Filler everythwere.

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Mostly sanded off but in need of another round of touch ups and further sanding.


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A piece ready for polyester. I have quite a few pieces that are really ready for polyester.

Such as these.

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These are the two handles to push and pull on either side of the sliding table. They also get a brush type sweep on their undersides that keeps the sliding extrusion clean.

They have some pretty good flat spots sanded or ground into them. Again this is what I found under the paint I removed. These flat spots where either showing and or filled with little regard for a esthetic.

Being aluminum I have chosen to sand them round vrs use filler. The next coat of polyester primer should help me get them a perfect radius.

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Sanded and ready for polyester. Not perfect but I suspect I’ll get back at them with some finer grits and get them perfectly round before more prime or paint.

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Same approach on the dust port. I had previously attempted to use body fuller to get a smooth curve. It worked just fine then I figured out it was just as easy to sand the aluminum. The line where the cone or tapered section came into the the section with the little door had a very wavy line. It was driving me nuts. I probably spent a good half hour sanding the two sides together as to get a straight line.

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[Patrick Walsh]

Here is the rail the sliding table travels on.

I have gone back and forth with a large block sanding this and a Da. Hinestly I think the 5” Da is doing a better job then the block. I think I’m gonna buy one of those long narrow powered autobody sanders as to get this thing perfectly flat and free of waves.

Having done so much plaster and paint work in my life waves and a crappy patch job drives me crazy. I cringe when I walk by a wall in a nice house or have to hang trim to a brand new plaster job you can’t put even a 24” straight edge to.

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That’s pretty much it. I’m back in the shop building again as apposed to in the field installing for what should be at least a month if not a couple to few. This means I can get in a couple hours before I start my work day and a couple hours after I’m done working for the day. Four hours a day five days a week really allowed me to get a ton of work done when I was tearing down and prepping all these pieces.

[Patrick McCarthy]

Patrick, wise move to get the full respirator to save your brain cells and nervous system. Nitrile gloves too, not latex. When i started the restoration with my son of a 69 Camaro, and decided to get it media blasted, i started researching the epoxies, primer, paints and the warnings associated with them. The more i learned about the isocynates (sp) the more i became concerned about what i was going to be exposing my son and myself to. Nasty stuff and the brain cells are not going to grow back . . . . Spend the money for the protective gear or pay someone else to do the spraying and stay far, far away. JMHO

Enjoying your posts, and don’t worry, you are not the only one with the perfectionist streak guiding (controlling) you. The voices in my head remind me multiple times a day that there are only two ways to do things: the “right” way or every other variation. Also guided or guilted by the “I will know, even if no one else does” voice to not take shortcuts.

Again, enjoy the journey; many of us are enjoying watching your progress. Best, Patrick

[Patrick Walsh]

Giving away Brain cells, now that’s the least of my concern. Crap I practically made it my life’s mission in my formidable years.

In all seriousness I don’t want to give them away to paint], if I’m gonna give them away and I’m long since done abusing my brain I can think of much more entertaining ways.

I know I’m not alone in my perfectionism. I think it just gets old having spent my life being told by “most” that it’s not nessiaray and all the other blabble yada yada Im sure you well know about if you have the disease.

Good news is although the primer I’m using does have the isocynites in it it’s not actually the Imron stuff and spraying and sanding in a full face resperator such as the one peter suggested is just fine. When I get to the paint stage weeks down the road I’m sure I’ll have the proper gear all sorted.

I’m half inclined at this point to setup our booth for supplied air. It’s pretty much all set the way it is right now. I’d just need to add a CO detector to the line after all the filters and right before the line out to my head gear. The CO detector is like $6-700 then another $600 for the mask then another $250 for the appropriate hose. It’s a lot of money but not like a ton of money and it’s my health. I fully expect to restore a T21 at some point and or a giant Wadkin or Oliver lathe at some point somit wont go to waste.

But yeah I’m not gonna be excited to drop that $2k but I will enjoy continuing on as I wish without concern I’m gonna hurt myself and be able to blissfully continue on as I am.

Im glad people are enjoying this. It’s nice to hear as lots of views and only a few have something to say. I know I have followed many a thread on various forum over the years and those threads helped me acquire the info to achieve the things I was after.

I’m not much into technology but I am into the sharing the Internet has provided us all. So much I have learnt as a result. I remeber when I was a teenager in the llate 80’-90’s I had the same bug I do now always pulling something apart. Back then it was my bicycles, skateboards and all the ramps jumps and obstacles a kid could think up. Back then we just had to do our best to figure out what was what based on our best guesses and or the limited exposure we had to whatever it was we were embarking on or after. In some ways that was pretty cool and probably aided in my ability to figure out pretty much anything mechanical. But man this internet thing has sure simplified that all and made for in some cases a much finer finished product.

Share some pictures of the car I don’t mind thread drift. Nice thing you did with your son. I bet you both w]really enjoyed that and will remeber it forever.

Patrick, wise move to get the full respirator to save your brain cells and nervous system. Nitrile gloves too, not latex. When i started the restoration with my son of a 69 Camaro, and decided to get it media blasted, i started researching the epoxies, primer, paints and the warnings associated with them. The more i learned about the isocynates (sp) the more i became concerned about what i was going to be exposing my son and myself to. Nasty stuff and the brain cells are not going to grow back . . . . Spend the money for the protective gear or pay someone else to do the spraying and stay far, far away. JMHO

Enjoying your posts, and don’t worry, you are not the only one with the perfectionist streak guiding (controlling) you. The voices in my head remind me multiple times a day that there are only two ways to do things: the “right” way or every other variation. Also guided or guilted by the “I will know, even if no one else does” voice to not take shortcuts.

Again, enjoy the journey; many of us are enjoying watching your progress. Best, Patrick

[Jeff Duncan]

Looks like your trying to set a record for # of posts with this thread

Missed out on some of the progress over the last week or so and skimming through catching up I see you decided on using Polyster finish??? I'm sure you explained and I missed it, but curious why would you use that stuff? That is some really obnoxious crap to have to shoot, especially for a surface not subject to a high, (or even moderate), degree of wear. Would have thought a decent automotive paint, or maybe an enamel would have sufficed?

Anyway it's looking good so far!
Jeff

[Patrick Walsh]

You know cuz I’m challeneged is all I can figure.

I went looking for sikkens acrylic automotive paint. Base and clear you know and couldn’t find anyone local that stocked it. I got to talking to one local suplier told them what I was up to and they suggested the DuPont stuff just as good. The polyester is a spray on bondo. I’m confused maybe you know that and wonder why the hell id do that. Well short and sweet is many of the pieces fully stripped to the casts right out of the molds have a nasty texture. Add to that lots of small tight corners that would be very hard to get into with regular body filler.

Ok back to the story. So the etch primer is for adhesion. The sealer is because the very high quality etch primer I chose much be sealed fully after application with a primer/sealer. The goal is DuPont 3.5 reduced gloss Imron. If you don’t know of it and why would you unless you painted cars in the 70’s or fleet vehicles now it’s a two part polyurethane not in need of clear. It’s supoosed to be tuff as nails and lay drown very very nice along with easy peasy to spray. It can also be wet sanded and buffed out like a real automotive clear coat. You just gotta do it within a day of shooting it as it hardens up so much it just won’t sand.

You know really it all came down to I went looking for Sikkens couldn’t find it and was going home with something on a Friday afternoon so I could paint Saturday when all the autobody supply stores are closed.

Yup I created myself some serious serious labor.

It’s sure gonna be perty though, and tuff as all can be.

[Tom M King]

If there's a fancy car painting shop in town, chances are high that they would be using the Sikkens system.

I first saw Imron at my first job after college. It was a large FBO airplane business. They did all sorts of repairs from electronics, through skin repairs, including painting, and a flight school. Airplanes were the first things I ever saw painted with Imron. That was in 1973. I had an old inboard ski boat, and painted it with Imron. It is tough stuff. I think it was something like 60 bucks a gallon then, and you could buy a new car for 4k. I only worked there for three months, and then went into business for myself.

[Patrick Walsh]

Tom funny story told to me this week by my uncle. The same uncle that suggested the Sikkens as it what his painter uses on his Piece Arrows. He has like I’d say six of them fully restored to the tens.

So I tell him I’m using imron. He said wow they still make that stuff, you know that stuff has been around for 30-40. He then saiz you know so and so. So and so has now owned a autobody shop for about 30 years. I say yes, he saiz so when we we’re kids like 18 or so, so and so was working for such and such autobody shop. He had a relative that owned a oil company yada yada. I guess he had just purchased a brand new oil truck and pulled into so and so’s place of employment to show off his new truck and paint job. He gets out of the truck and starts saying look how nice it is, they used Imron and bragging that’s its chip proof and tuff as nails and the best thing since sliced bread.

So my uncle tells me so and so proceeded to pick up a rock and whip it at the truck. I guess the paint chipped and that was the end of the conversation.

Pretty funny but not funny, but really funny if you knew this guy so and so.

to

If there's a fancy car painting shop in town, chances are high that they would be using the Sikkens system.

I first saw Imron at my first job after college. It was a large FBO airplane business. They did all sorts of repairs from electronics, through skin repairs, including painting, and a flight school. Airplanes were the first things I ever saw painted with Imron. That was in 1973. I had an old inboard ski boat, and painted it with Imron. It is tough stuff. I think it was something like 60 bucks a gallon then, and you could buy a new car for 4k. I only worked there for three months, and then went into business for myself.

[Patrick Walsh]

Well last night I got everything prepped “taped and sanded” for another coat of primer to lock in the body filler. I can’t get the spray booth till Saturday so I’m waiting with nothing to do for now. I can’t just stop working on this project as I have so much left and fear it will drag on forever of I don’t try and ,are some headway every week.

So I started tearing into the cabinet. You might remember I had tried to remove the motor a couple weeks ago and it was seized on. Well today I got it off and number of other parts. I at another stand still till Mark, Peter or joe can chime in and at least try to offer me some guidance.

I need to source or make a wrench to get the arbor lock but off. As you can see someone at some point has already screwed with this.

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My second issue is the hand crank wheel that raises lowers and bevels the blade. In marks thread on his t-17 he makes mention of some of the issues with the removal and re installation of this piece. Tonight I figured out what that’s alll about.

On the operator side the shaft of the handwheel has a key that is best I can tell not removable. It’s kinda strange as I also removed one of the cogs the belts travel on from the motor to the arbor. These have a removable key. From what I can tell I have to either grind the key off or figure out how to get the cog off the other side. The cog is not revailing to me how the hell to remove it either. It looks like there is a oin through it that pierces the shaft. I tried to give it a few light taps and push it out the side but no dice. I do notice the cog also has a couple very smalls holes like for a spaner wrench but I have a feeling that’s not what they are?

So mark, Peter, joe any thoughts.

This is the cog on the other side.

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Inside if the saw with the motor removed.

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[Patrick Walsh]

So this is kinda neat. These pictures show the unprepared base and the terrible body work done from the factory. These pictures also show that the weird banana shaped base is actually two pieces. There was a small sheet metal door bolted to the back of this extension. I took it off and to my surprise the thing is bolted on at the factory then crap body work done and painted in place. All I could think was “oh boy dint take that off or you might never setbthe saw re alined again.

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Inside the banana..

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The other side and where the two pieces are seamed together. Just look how terrible s job they did transitioning the two pieces and smoothing the edges of the casts. Kinda crazy as there is piles of body filler under the factory paint. You’d think if they bothered with filler they would had at least tried to obscure more of this. I’m not complaining just pointing it out. Clearly I’ll be tending to this crap.

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Then the saw as it sits until I can get the arbor undone and the hsndwheel off.

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And the motor on my workbench ready for tear down. The good news is I removed enough parts today to keep busy fir a week stripping and prepping them for paint.

Also anyone know where I can have a motor re would. I’m not sure I need to re wind it or if there is any pros or cons to doing for that matter if it functions now. My thought is just do everything now 100% so it’s actually a brand new saw.

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So much dust packed into the inside of the machine. Much of it resembles teak dust, I was told by the second owner and guy I purchased the machine from the first owner was a boat builder and worked largely in teak. It shows as the dust is oil and compact just like teak dust.

[Mark Hennebury]

Hi Patrick,
I made a pin wrench out of an old shaper collar.
Let me think about removing the crank for a minute.


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Well last night I got everything prepped “taped and sanded” for another coat of primer to lock in the body filler. I can’t get the spray booth till Saturday so I’m waiting with nothing to do for now. I can’t just stop working on this project as I have so much left and fear it will drag on forever of I don’t try and ,are some headway every week.

So I started tearing into the cabinet. You might remember I had tried to remove the motor a couple weeks ago and it was seized on. Well today I got it off and number of other parts. I at another stand still till Mark, Peter or joe can chime in and at least try to offer me some guidance.

I need to source or make a wrench to get the arbor lock but off. As you can see someone at some point has already screwed with this.

C6E738E0-7C8B-41AA-943A-11E8E1682DE5.jpg

My second issue is the hand crank wheel that raises lowers and bevels the blade. In marks thread on his t-17 he makes mention of some of the issues with the removal and re installation of this piece. Tonight I figured out what that’s alll about.

On the operator side the shaft of the handwheel has a key that is best I can tell not removable. It’s kinda strange as I also removed one of the cogs the belts travel on from the motor to the arbor. These have a removable key. From what I can tell I have to either grind the key off or figure out how to get the cog off the other side. The cog is not revailing to me how the hell to remove it either. It looks like there is a oin through it that pierces the shaft. I tried to give it a few light taps and push it out the side but no dice. I do notice the cog also has a couple very smalls holes like for a spaner wrench but I have a feeling that’s not what they are?

So mark, Peter, joe any thoughts.

This is the cog on the other side.

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Inside if the saw with the motor removed.

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[Mark Hennebury]

Patrick, this is a bit tricky;
I believe that the saw is assembled by dropping the the saw handwheel parts that are on the outside of the saw were put on last.
I think when the machine was made that the saw parts, like the spindle mount assembly went in first.
Then the wheel assembly went in. mounting plate,Raise and lower wheel and tilt wheel.
Then the mounting plate was filled and painted to blend in with the base.


So the problem in taking this apart is you will have to remove the raise and lower wheel, the tilt wheel, and the mounting plate that is bondo'ed to the base.

To reassemble it you have two options; Do it the way that it was done at the factory, which is assemble it the bondo and paint the wheel mounting plate.
Or the way that i did it which is to bondo and paint the base first. which creates a problem, you cant get the woodruff key in when you go to reassemble the wheels.
I did a work around and filed the key slot to the end of the shaft, so that i could put the key in side and slide the shaft in from the outside over it.

It is difficult to explain but easy to do when you look at it.

this is how i did it; bolt the plate to the base filed and painted it.

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This is what it looks like on the inside;

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This piece slides in from the outside, then you put the key into the slot from the inside, only you cant, you wont have access to do it.
You can see that this slot is not a regular keyway slot as i filed it open to the end of the shaft.

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So i put the key in the inside , lined the slot up carefully and then slid the shaft in.

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With the saw spindle assembly in you cannot get access to put in the key.


Unless you want to assemble everything first then fill and paint after, which is not the way that i wanted to do it.
Call me if you need help.

[Darcy Warner]

I would have someone meg the motor, that will tell you the condition of the windings. Rewinding a motor just because, is an unnecessary expense, they will last forever.

Pin spanner wrench.

[Patrick Walsh]

Any trick for getting a siezed keyed belt wheel on the motors spindle off?

God dam thing is not budging...