Vintage Martin T75 restoration

[Patrick Walsh]

I wish I was closer as I would then I’d be fine to do it on my own machine or tell my boss “it’s fine I promise”...

Till then....

I wouldn't run the dust collector.

When a widebelt is dedicated for metal, the air is pulled through a wet collector. That's why I said blow it out before you start so there's nothing in there to start a fire. Blow it out afterwards just to prove you're not a jerk.

Your just cleaning the parts up, so you're just going to remove the bare minimum of material and slowly. It's not going to do anything. They only difference between a wood widebelt and one for metal is drum durometer hardness and abrasive fpm.

Non-ferrous metal just run it through like normal. I've ran aluminum through mine a few times to get a consistent scratch. I do grab a set of junk belts when doing it.

Bring it over, you can run them through mine.

[Patrick Walsh]

Oh dont get me wrong I do to just not on stuff that might ruin.

I have caused myself major grief for my dust wiener drawings over the years. Yup I’m like 13 still..

I’ll see if I can find it but my bench mate came in the other day and what like look what I found on net flicks it’s documentry about you.

It’s was a parody show about serial killers and the like but in this case it was some kid framed for spray painting wieners all over the all cars in his high school parking lot. It really was pretty funny. We really do have a good time doing what we do don’t we. It’s pretty good life lol..

I love drawing dust wieners all over everything.

[Patrick Walsh]

Aye not been able to ind much of any time for the saw this week. Today I carved out about an half day effort towards the project. Sadly half of that time was spent running around mostly getting paint and abrasives.

This past week I ordere a die grinder and A needle scaller. It’s been killing me to see what the two tools would do for the both east of prep and quality.

The kneedle scaller is like wow! It’s a bit scary on some cast parts as my intutitiontells me cast iron is fragile. In those areas I just stay clear of delicate areas and use the grinder. But man it does a great job. In the case of this machine it still leaves a bit of fill or primer that’s kind gummy and I have to use the grinder to get that all the way off. Even that still leaves a bit of prime and fill in the pitting or texturing that cast parts seem to have. I’m learning as I go here. I think I’ll take a wire wheel to all the cast parts before prime.

So I decided to cut no corners on the paint. I love a good opportunity to go all OCD and overboard on something. Paying work just never lets you do so. The decision is a very high quality sink based self etching primer. This stuff was $300 for the tow parts a gallon of catalyst and a gallon of prime. After the self etch I’ll use a polyester based high build primer. I’ll then set to filling the deep voids in the casts with a fiberglass fill. The fiberglass will be followed by light skim of high quality regular body fill to get my perfect finish. Then maybe a spot prime with the polyester again. After that a urtithane based auto body paint.

Doing what I’m doing it’s going to be a long road to hoe but whatever. I’m thinking I’ll have about $1k into just the paint portion of this project. Kinda nuts but you know I’m gonna have them stuff my dead body into the base of this machine and swing the door shut when my time comes and just let me rot.

I was also able to contact Martin this week and figure out the adhesive used to glue the tracks that where loose to the sliding table back down. For those that might want to know it’s a loctite product number 330. It’s two part product you apply one part of to each of the tow parts you are gluing together. I watched some video of the stuff being used to glue tow nuts together the. A guy hanging in a harness for the tow nuts through a carabiner bouncing and down and nothing. It has only a five minute open time so I had better get it all worked up first like any proper glue up. The product is in the mail so hopefully next week I get that taken care of and the sliding table put back together and tested to assure it’s all working as it should.

The pictures bellow show about 2 hours of work this afternoon. I’m going for complete bare metal on everything at this point now that I have the proper tools and decided to spend big on the paint. I figure anythingleft behind is a weak spot for my paint to fail so best get it all off if I can.

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The needle scaller making a DA look like a red headed step child.

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The prime and fill I chose.

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And the bill, imagine that that’s jsut the first bill. I’ll still need the polyester prime, finish paint and piles of abrasives.

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Still with all that said this is not gonna come close to the cost of a new Martin or even a low end Scmi or Felder. I figure with Macs clamps Brian’s digital stops and new crosscut fence sourced direct from Martin the Martin miter index thing I’ll be into the machine all said and done for well under $10k every bearing, wire oil line everything pretty much a brand new 1970 whatever Martin T75. Imop that’s a huge bargain and way more exciting to me than a new Martin T75 prex. Ok well maybe not but way more exciting than any other saw money could buy including anything else thatnthe Prex that Martin makes.

And the best news is that if the economy doesn’t crap out I’ll probably be able to get myself either a new T12 or domthis all over again if I can find a used T-21 sliding table.

[Brian Holcombe]

Oh don't worry, whatever the budget is it will go way past that . It's best not to add the bills up.

Looking good, very interested to see how your paint turns out. I'm sure it will be exceptional.

Cast iron is not that fragile, at the machine shop we used a steel shot machine to spray chilled iron balls at the surface. I assume the effect on the iron is very similar between the two machines.

[Patrick Walsh]

Good to know about the cast iron Brian.

I’m also a little nervous about the auto body paint.

I’m really asking for it “labor wise” taking every last thing down to perfectly bare metal. I have also done enough finishing to know that the nicer the paint finish you go for “smoother, higher sheen yada yada” the more meticulous and perfect your prep has to be. Much like finishing wood one plane track or sand paper swirl mark will magnify itself the nicer the final finish you are shooting for.

I really really hope i don’t live to regret this.

Im also gonna have to get the finish to atomize and lay down properly same with the clear coat. Orange peel will drive me nuts after going to these lengths.

The more I think about it I’m gonna be teaching myself how paint a car in some ways going this route. I’m sure a car would be much harder again still but I’ll surely have a fair amount of what goes into painting a car figured out when this is done..

I wanted to use a product for the first deep fill of the castings that is a liquid metal. At like $35ma pint though I don’t think I can afford it. I hope the fiberglass is a good choice?

Oh don't worry, whatever the budget is it will go way past that . It's best not to add the bills up.

Looking good, very interested to see how your paint turns out. I'm sure it will be exceptional.

Cast iron is not that fragile, at the machine shop we used a steel shot machine to spray chilled iron balls at the surface. I assume the effect on the iron is very similar between the two machines.

[Jim Becker]

Yo could consider using some flattening for your final coat of color finish to "take the edge off" relative to imperfections. A high sheen is going to show everything; something between matte and satin will look very nice without over-highlighting any "boo-boos"...

[Brian Holcombe]

I’d imagine anything fit for autobody will do fine.

[Patrick Walsh]

Yes I’m gonna go for a soft gloss not quite a mate finish but not high gloss either. I figure just normal,use the machine will inevitably get beat up over the years. Not as much a machine is a production shop environment but used non the less. Crap I remember how excited I was when I got my new to me sawstop in need of a number of repairs. I did this and that to it a bit of spit shinning included. Now I’m over that machine and I have found myself lying on it. Splattering fishes all over it when finishing as I only have so much room and mostly adopting a “afterall it a machine to build other things with and what good is it if your pussy footing around it” maybe I just have know that machine is destined for a new home knowing I was destined for a slider.

Regardless no way in heck will this get a high gloss finish,

finish

Yo could consider using some flattening for your final coat of color finish to "take the edge off" relative to imperfections. A high sheen is going to show everything; something between matte and satin will look very nice without over-highlighting any "boo-boos"...

[Darcy Warner]

Rage makes a nice filler, I use whatever the stuff is that napa carries. Dries fast, co clog when sanding it.

I put almost 2 gallons worth in the last y36 i did. I think i sanded about half of it off. Doing filler work on machines with lots of curves is much more difficult and time consuming compared to auto panels.

I refuse to use a paint that is not easy to touch up. Stuff will get dinged when putting things back together.

[Patrick Walsh]

Our finisher turned me onto the Rage filler. I’ve used on cabinetry here and there and it’s noticeably nicer than the big box stuff.

I realize I’m in for it with all the curved parts. I figure once I have all these various parts that bolt on the the main cabinet of the saw broken down prepped then put back togehter to make sure everything works properly I’ll still have weeks ahead of me priming filling, sanding priming filling sanding, spot priming then painting. I really have turned this into a major project.

I have to thank you for offering your perspective on a paint you can touch up if you bump so,etching assembling. One of my major gripes day to day building custom cabinetry is that most of it is destined for a dumpster as it’s built in manner that repairs are almost impossible. Be it pre finished ply for interiors or conversion varnish on the outsides neither can be repaired with any kind of ease if at all once installed. This kind of short sighted consumerism is gonna kill us as a species as the waste just piles up and up and up and the resources needed to continue to replace everything ever 3-10-20 years is destroying the planet and our minds and souls as we are all so misdirected as a result.

Ok rant over but anyway I did a little work today.

Started by cleaning cleaning the chain that moves the outrigger table back and forth for the dado capacity of the saw. I had it soaking in laquer thinner for at least a week while I was working in the field. Some knuckle head painted the saw,at,some point and got a pit of paint on it here and there. It’s still not cleaned to my expectation but it’s good enough to be put aside as done till final assembly. I just love that everything saiz made in Germany on it. I can’t tell what the chain is made of but parts almost look like brass or something.

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Then I cleaned up the pieces that the outeriiger table arm indexes into. These had a laquer thinner soak also and then a scrape with a putty knife and another soak in laquer thinner. Today I quickly hit them with the dai grinder with a brown scotch brite. They have one machines surface each I have to take care to not alter.

This is it out of laquer thinner with a quick scrape.

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This is post scotch brite.

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Now back into a rust remover soak as the machines sircaemhad some light rust as do the casts inside them. I’ll hit the, lightly with a wire wheel after the rust bath.

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I the die grinder to the section of the dust/blade shroud. The dai grinder and brown scotch brite made quick work of this. Well I guess maybe 30 minutes give or take.

Just off the machine

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Post scotch brite dai grinder

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Rage makes a nice filler, I use whatever the stuff is that napa carries. Dries fast, co clog when sanding it.

I put almost 2 gallons worth in the last y36 i did. I think i sanded about half of it off. Doing filler work on machines with lots of curves is much more difficult and time consuming compared to auto panels.

I refuse to use a paint that is not easy to touch up. Stuff will get dinged when putting things back together.

[Patrick Walsh]

I was about done at this point as but decided to see what I could do to the underside ribbed sections of the sliding tables with the brown scotch brite sand dai grinders. Due to the rough texture of the casts the dai grinder and scotch brite pads did nothing. I reluctantly turned to the kneedle scaller. Again out of fear of cracking a cast I can’t replace. So far so good other than the nightmare of holding on what I would compare to a combination of a rotary hammer, tattoo gun and jackhammer all in one. The pictures represent one hour of consistent work. Amhour hanging onto that thing without being paid was about all I could stand.

More tomorrow.

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That’s it, dinner time and cuddle the dog time. Maybe a few hour tomorrow before the big game.

GO PATRIOTS AND FORGET THE HATERS!

[peter gagliardi]

Good progress.
I just leveled my machine up after moving it some time ago, and fired it up.
The slider, at some positions has more play than I remember, going to have to address that at some point. The ball races may not be evenly enough distributed, causing it, because when the table is centered, there is no perceptible play, and the ways have even wear throughout.
Getting into that, is something that requires more patience, time and concentration than I see myself having in the near future.
I had taken the crosscut table and fence off, now I get to go through the whole 5 cut method ritual to dial it in............

[Patrick Walsh]

Sorry to hear about your saw peter..

I agree squaring a slider if you want it perfect has gotta be something you want to do and gave the time to do or your screwed..

If only we all just had two of us. I’d be a pretty happy guy..

Good progress.
I just leveled my machine up after moving it some time ago, and fired it up.
The slider, at some positions has more play than I remember, going to have to address that at some point. The ball races may not be evenly enough distributed, causing it, because when the table is centered, there is no perceptible play, and the ways have even wear throughout.
Getting into that, is something that requires more patience, time and concentration than I see myself having in the near future.
I had taken the crosscut table and fence off, now I get to go through the whole 5 cut method ritual to dial it in............

[Patrick Walsh]

Got in a half day today.

Stayed with a 1hr 40min with the kneeedle scaller straight without so much as a ten second break. Holly crap was that a suffer fest. Yo really gotta want something to suffer like that. My carepel tunnel is wrecked. Just took three alive, followed that with a kava kava root “natural muscle relaxer” now I’m drinking a 20 oz Red Bull so the kava kava does not put me to sleep for the game.

The paint removal is pretty much done on the upper extrusion of the slider. I gotta maybe hit the face side with a maroon scotch brite on the dai grinder but that’s it. Then the prep wash products to prep air for primer and it’s done. I don’t ever want to do that again!

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Then I turned back to the extrusion the sliding table rides on. This has ribbing on the underside also and I was loathing what I was gonna find. To my surprise and for whatever reason the paint on the underside of this piece is on there like glue still so it’s staying. The top needed more attention despite all the prep I had already done. I noticed some of the remaining fill was wanting to crack out so I had been planning to sand it all off since I last touched this piece. When I went to get to it today I noticed very light rust under the full as I would chip it off. I’m not sure but I suspect moisture penetrated the filler at some point. I have been reading quite a bit about painting metal and it seems it’s not uncommon for rust to be found under body filler as most body filler is not a vapor barrier.

Anyway I took the kneedle scaller to it then a wire wheel to get every last bit of fill and paint off it. You can tell this piece is cast iron as the cast marks are rough. It’s also heavy all get out!

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Close up of cast.

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Underside...

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[Patrick Walsh]

I actually started my day taking off the tow pieces that hold the cast extrusion above to the table.

One of the really neat things about this saw is the sliding table moves away from the blade with a hand crank. The ha d crack is attached by a chain and tow cogs as seen in pictures bellow.

Sadly at some point t some idiot cranked things to hard and bent the limit screws. I suspect I’m going to have to cut them as to get them out without ruing the threads. I have found one or two other minor problems like this but nothing major so far.

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The the fruits of this weeks labor on the saw.

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This door is just awesome, I just can’t get enough of it.

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This coming week I’m going to focus on getting the tracks glued to the extrusion so I can put the sliding table back togehter and hope it’s smooth as butter. Before that I’m gonna give all these parts a once over and make sure the prep is all 100% done and ready for prep wash and paint.

I’ll then figure out the paint thing the rest of the way. I’ve already figured out the guy at the auto paint supply store has no idea what he is talking about as he sold me self etch primer that much be primed over with epoxy or eurithane primer writhing three hours of the etch being shot. He did not mention this fact nor did he sell me a secondary primer. I’m gonna contact the manufacturer direct tomorrow.

I’m also gonna sort out my spray equipment and make sure I have the right to- sizes and needles so forth and so on.

So much to do still.

I looked under the cast table on the saw itself to start to wrap my head around how the table comes off the base. As in Mark H’s t-17 build thread it seems the trunion and motor are hanging off the tables. There is also the two large scary spring to contend with mark made mention of. Time to start thinking about my next move now so when I’m ready I have a plan. For now I’m just gonna get this stuff back together then prepped for finish paint. I suspect hats a months work in of itself.