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Thread: Vintage Martin T75 restoration

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    Brian,

    It’s 20K

    For that kind of money I just assume undertake the task myself.

    There is a old T75 close to me I could have for $5K “to much” that if I put a year of day here a day there work into I could make a dream machine. The problem is tow fold. I have limited time and want to build the things I want to build when I’m not working building the things I get paid to build. The second part is I often work from home when nesssiary and need the capacity to work with sheet stock. I’m tired of the track saw cabinet saw shuffle to size carcass panels. I’m now spoiled having a slider at work and it just feels so slow and cumbersome by comparison.

    That saw is sweet though other than that nasty grey he chose. If I could setup for just my hobby/furniture/art shop as I have been at home and never worked with sheet stock that sawmwould be the choice. The short stroke a deal breaker for me sadly..
    That saw is a dream for me, grey included (I like the color) so I thought I'd mention it. I absolutely love it and I respect that the price is not too much considering the work involved and the high quality of that work.

    Anything can be rebuilt, but before you buy that saw I would find a local machine shop willing to take on one-off work at a reasonable price. Find out as much as possible the expenses before you commit to buying it, you may well be buying a headache if you want to work out the imperfections. The trouble, in many cases, is that once you start fixing things the costs involved rise rapidly.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  2. #17
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    Patrick, I did the same thing but with an SCM SI16 WA. It is at least one or two levels below the Altendorf but still way heavier than any most saws costing 20K new. I bought two saws and combined parts, sold some extra stuff and have a great saw with about 5K invested. You might want to talk to Stiles and see if they know of others with the same vintage machine and talk to others about potential issues. Commercial three phase sliders under 7500 are plentiful and generally in good condition. When you get under 5K, you need to be careful but you can still find good choices. Dave

  3. #18
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    Check the Machinery Exchange listings on Woodweb. There's a clean looking Altendorf C-45 available in Acton MA, seller is asking $5,500. Looks to be early / mid 90s vintage.

  4. #19
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    Funny I know that saw.

    We actually do that shops overflow work..

    I’m not very motivated by that saw for whatever reason.

  5. #20
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    That has mostly been the concern for me Brian and hence my motivation to just pace myself and but one new Martin say every five years till I’m just done. The last thing I want to do is dump any amount of my time into a machine as I barely have the time to make the things I want as mentioned above.

    Now if I could get myself into a high quality old iron machine like this Altendorf or a early Martin for say$5k with a poop ton of elbow grease I would do it I am far from made of money and motivated to not spend my every last dollar.

    I don’t have a relationship with a machinist but do have access to a few others work with. They are costly as these are guys that make parts for old antique cars like say early 1900’s Piece Arrows, packards, Beugatis and the such. I could see easily see dumping $5-7K into this machine if I pay $1500 for it being I, quite a perfectionist and will spare no expense having all parts machines to like new or better. No kipp levers for me �� , I’d be more inclined custom knerling and the such.



    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    That saw is a dream for me,cluded (I like the color) so I thought I'd mention it. I absolutely love it and I respect that the price is not too much considering the work involved and the high quality of that work.

    Anything can be rebuilt, but before you buy that saw I would find a local machine shop willing to take on one-off work at a reasonable price. Find out as much as possible the expenses before you commit to buying it, you may well be buying a headache if you want to work out the imperfections. The trouble, in many cases, is that once you start fixing things the costs involved rise rapidly.

  6. #21
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    If I recall from when I visited his shop in TX, Steve Jenkins has an Altendorf slider, but I don't recall things like model, etc. You do have an advantage with the one you're looking at having been actually operating it at your workplace and knowing "what goes bump in the night".
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    That has mostly been the concern for me Brian and hence my motivation to just pace myself and but one new Martin say every five years till I’m just done. The last thing I want to do is dump any amount of my time into a machine as I barely have the time to make the things I want as mentioned above.

    Now if I could get myself into a high quality old iron machine like this Altendorf or a early Martin for say$5k with a poop ton of elbow grease I would do it I am far from made of money and motivated to not spend my every last dollar.

    I don’t have a relationship with a machinist but do have access to a few others work with. They are costly as these are guys that make parts for old antique cars like say early 1900’s Piece Arrows, packards, Beugatis and the such. I could see easily see dumping $5-7K into this machine if I pay $1500 for it being I, quite a perfectionist and will spare no expense having all parts machines to like new or better. No kipp levers for me �� , I’d be more inclined custom knerling and the such.
    It is often surprising how large the equipment needed to surface machine parts actually is. I can't imagine people building car parts would need equipment of the size to build machine parts. There just aren't that many long parts on a car that need checking, let alone resurfacing. You'd probably have more luck with someone who rebuilds large diesel motors if you need something long and heavy repaired.

    So, anyways, check the saw out in every way manageable so that you have an idea of what you're getting involved in. If the machine has been packed with sawdust for years then you can honestly expect to have to rebuild every sliding surface and replace every bearing, even those behind sealed compartments.

    I would expect to replace every bearing and rebuild every bearing surface and if some of them turn out to be acceptable (the surfaces, not the bearings) then you're money ahead.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  8. #23
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    Patrick, I've lost track of the goal here. If you are looking for a five year machine until you can buy what you want, I'd run it and not spend tons of time or money on rehab. You won't get the money back when you sell. If you are planning to keep this forever, then the ways are the big deal. Everything else can be dealt with if the slider and top are in good shape. If the table has a hitch in a certain spot, check the underarm support. Often that is where the problem lies and it transmits to the table. Cleaning the crap out and checking the bearings of the support can bring new life to the action of the table. Dave

  9. #24
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    Dave my goal if I purchased this saw would be a forever saw.

    I’m not interested in anything else as getting a machine this size into my shop requires much work. Just getting the machine outside my shop door is a project. I’m them going to have to remove my door jamb and all and cut into my foundation to increase the width to fit the machine through.

    This machine would require I only increase the width maybe 1-3” but a new Martin will require a double door and a structural steel beam to replace the sill plate that carries the wall above.

    Once that is done I have three short steps into my shop but that’s three pretty big steps when dealing with 4Klbs.

    Once that’s done if Martin a phase perfect is in order. If this Altendorf I could have less expensive options for running a three phase machine.

    My intent is to save $$$ have a forever machine and still be happy. I’m trying hard to not have to always buy and have the best everything as I’m getting old and reality is I’m a cabinet maker and just can’t have everything.

    I feel lucky to have what I have..
    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 11-06-2018 at 12:39 PM.

  10. #25
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    Brian,

    Good insight as to the type of machinist whom would handle such a tasks. I really have no idea to be perfectly honest. I just know I have access to people of varying abilities with regard to machine work “even diesel mechanics” funny you should mention. I could maybe even ship you parts if you would be so interested.

    I fully expect that I would replace every bearing in the machine. Again I have no idea where I get such bearings, how to remove them and or get them back on other than some kind of press and puller. I’m sure I’d figure it all out but it will be a journey that’s for sure.

    The good news is I can leave the machine at work, tear it fully down, put it in the elevator and send it down to the spray booth then bring it back to the shop, fully rebuild it and then bring it home. No down time for my personal shop. The more I think about it though I should probably just finish paying off the new Martin Jointer and take out a loan for a brand new T60C and forget about the headaches and never have to want for another saw again.

    The above option will however leave me working very hard and still trying to figure out how I’m gonna get a new Martin shaper also lol..

    The want can just never end if you don’t intervene at some point right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    It is often surprising how large the equipment needed to surface machine parts actually is. I can't imagine people building car parts would need equipment of the size to build machine parts. There just aren't that many long parts on a car that need checking, let alone resurfacing. You'd probably have more luck with someone who rebuilds large diesel motors if you need something long and heavy repaired.

    So, anyways, check the saw out in every way manageable so that you have an idea of what you're getting involved in. If the machine has been packed with sawdust for years then you can honestly expect to have to rebuild every sliding surface and replace every bearing, even those behind sealed compartments.

    I would expect to replace every bearing and rebuild every bearing surface and if some of them turn out to be acceptable (the surfaces, not the bearings) then you're money ahead.
    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 11-06-2018 at 1:01 PM.

  11. #26
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    Patrick, your balancing act appears to be whether the time and effort to rebuild the vintage Altendorf is more attractive than the "immediate satisfaction" (and warranty) of buying new, whether that be the Martin you covet or honestly, one of the more modest modern machines that would likely still do everything you want and need to do over the time you intend to continue doing what you do.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  12. #27
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    Speaking from a person who has moved big stuff into a basement, this would have to be a one and done for me. Before I move stuff out,i might have to cut in a double door, because it was that much of a hindrance for me moving stuff in. That is where my experience ends and opinion begins.

    I may have missed it in the discussion, but is this saw free? If its not free, is it in the neighborhood of $1000? I dont know diddly about Altendorf's from the 80s, but all of this sounds like a ton of time. I dont know your financial situation, but I would personally avoid the martin AND the altendorf. I imagine you know the market just as well if not better than me, and so you know theres going to be a great saw for under $10k in the next 3 months. From what youve said, i take it you have a T54? Id love to have a T54, and maybe some day i will, but for the interim i have some generic PF500 that does the job 90%+ as well as the martin. I own a 700 series Felder, and while i havent used dozens of sliders, i know theres better than my machine. With that said, my machine was cheap, cuts squarely, and is a good machine for me. Is the outrigger a little flimsy, yes. Is the cast iron table kinda small, yes. There are a lot of features on the machine that i would ideally want improved, bu they wouldnt be worth the opportunity cost. Either id have to give more of my time to rehab a better quality machine in worse condition, or spend more money that could otherwise go in an investment account. As you mentioned, sometimes you need to settle for 'good nuff'.

  13. #28
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    As Jim said I have a f45 that I bought new in 1992 so it’s a bit newer than the one you’re looking at. Also Ive been pretty much a one man shop so the use is different. Mine has phenolic ways and there is no problem with them. From what you’ve said it sounds like the saw is working fine. Seems like you mentioned getting it for 1500. If it were me I’d buy it take it home and use it until it no longer worked “fine” then look at either rebuilding as needed or get rid of it and replace it.
    Steve Jenkins, McKinney, TX. 469 742-9694
    Always use the word "impossible" with extreme caution

  14. #29
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    Jim,

    The above is 100% true. This would be my instant gratification type solution to not having to wait another year for a Martin then pay for it for the next three years.

    Really what it comes down to is I just don’t like good enough. I don’t like it with my work, I don’t like in my home, I don’t like in my car, I don’t like it from afar. I don’t like green eggs and ham SAM I am..

    You get the point I just don’t like good enough period.

    This is my reasoning, i did not say logic. If I’m gonna pay $20K for something even $10K for that matter I had better like it or it’s gonna get my goat every time I use it, when I do use said item im just gonna think this thing is ok but just ok, or it’s a problem and it cost me tens of thousands of dollars and I regret it and wish I had known better or saved longer and ourchest better quality.

    So the gussied up f45 would be a compromise for me that that could leave me satisfied if The saw was in proper working order and would last another 40 years that way as it is really high quality compared to what $10-20k gets you today. Even compared to a new Altendorf it’s much nicer imop.

    I wouldn’t walk up the machine weekly/daily and think this thing is just another tin pile of junk that got pared down to disposable because people generally just want cheap and no longer value quality that can last a hundred years. Or crap the sliding table deflects with clamping pressure and or won’t hold calibration and thus every time I use it I gotta muck with it before I can actually get to work when I should be able to just get to work to make a square cut, cope or tenon.

    The above logic or lack there of it is how I get myself to spend big money on machines, tools, my house repairs and upgrades and well everything but my truck and my clothing. I don’t like doing things twice because someone couldn’t be bothered to do it right the first time.

    I guess is should just wait and purchase exactly what I want. However it sounds like I could fix this machine if need be.

  15. #30
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    I also have moved lots of big stuff. So much so I’m getting pretty used to it and really don’t even consider it anymore. I use to move big stuff time to time building homes “structural steel, huge lvl’s, rocks whatever you name it. Now I move big stuff at work “machinery, lumber, finished cabinets that weigh way more than they should” all be it much more easy with a fork lift, pallet jack and elevator.

    Fact is it will take me a day and a few hundred bucks to get any machine into my house. To me that means once and done is the only option. I have no interest in ever taking anything out. As it is I’m gonna have to get rid of my Felder j/p in the next year or tow to bring my Martin t54 home that resides at work currrently. The Felder is 1800lbs, no big deal unless you gotta get it to go uphill and I do

    If the stuff ever comes out it’s gonna be cuz I’m dead or I move in such a case I’ll hire people to move it all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Kane View Post
    Speaking from a person who has moved big stuff into a basement, this would have to be a one and done for me. Before I move stuff out,i might have to cut in a double door, because it was that much of a hindrance for me moving stuff in. That is where my experience ends and opinion begins.

    I may have missed it in the discussion, but is this saw free? If its not free, is it in the neighborhood of $1000? I dont know diddly about Altendorf's from the 80s, but all of this sounds like a ton of time. I dont know your financial situation, but I would personally avoid the martin AND the altendorf. I imagine you know the market just as well if not better than me, and so you know theres going to be a great saw for under $10k in the next 3 months. From what youve said, i take it you have a T54? Id love to have a T54, and maybe some day i will, but for the interim i have some generic PF500 that does the job 90%+ as well as the martin. I own a 700 series Felder, and while i havent used dozens of sliders, i know theres better than my machine. With that said, my machine was cheap, cuts squarely, and is a good machine for me. Is the outrigger a little flimsy, yes. Is the cast iron table kinda small, yes. There are a lot of features on the machine that i would ideally want improved, bu they wouldnt be worth the opportunity cost. Either id have to give more of my time to rehab a better quality machine in worse condition, or spend more money that could otherwise go in an investment account. As you mentioned, sometimes you need to settle for 'good nuff'.

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