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Thread: Vintage Martin T75 restoration

  1. #1
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    Vintage Martin T75 restoration

    So I have a opportunity to purchase the above machine for a fair deal from my employer.

    I am aware of the phenolic guides being pop riveted I the the sliding table along with not availible for replacement.

    So my question is as follows to those in the know with regard to the phenolic ways. Can the material be replaced. It seems from what I can tell that reproducing it should be pretty easy considering phenolic is still readily availible. Well at least I think it is, I could be wrong. From the looks of it I would think it machines fairly easily.

    I figure the pop rivers could be taken out then the holes tapped and screws used instead to hold the phenolic ways down. As for the wheels the table rides along the ways on well I have yet to really dig to deep into the machine and check them out. I figure with all the stuff I seemguys domto restor old wadkin, Oliver and the like machines this has gotta be completely doable.

    I have intended to buy a brand new Martin T60C all tricked out in the next year or so. With that said I also have my eye on a fully outfitted t12 with sliding table. Point being the spending could just never stop. Another point is I like the idea of no electronics on a slider, what I donít like is the build quality of the low end offerings of Scmi or Felder when it comes to a fully manual machine.

    Donít get me wrong I love the idea of electronic everything but I also see a big risk involved. I figure if this saw is worth it I could fully go over much like Brian with his mortise machaine paint and all, the works if you will. I could then get a new crosscut fence from Felder or Scmi and Brianís digital readouts and have a pretty nice machine.

    So my hesitation is about the phenolic ways and them failing and me being stuck having to get a very very heavy lead weight out of my basement shop. Really whatever I bring into my shop I need to know it can live there forever baring natural disaster.

    So what can people tell me about these phenolic ways or other potential problems. What if the motor goes can I have it re wound?

  2. #2
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    You might try just setting a dial indicator on a magnetic base approximately parallel to the blade with the point on the inside edge of the sliding table and see if there's any significant deviation as it travels along the length of it's run. Also look for a rising and falling of the sliding table top relative to the main saw top.

    I had Griggio SC3000 with the same arrangement which I purchased used some years ago. The bearings in the wheels needed to be replaced but never an issue the ways being worn unevenly. Cut straight and ran like a champ.

  3. #3
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    What Peter said. The wear issue is really most prevalent where the slider made lots of small repeat cuts so the travel was mainly over just a small area. The dial should tell you if it is worth worrying about. If the cut is straight and there is no left and right wobble, life is good. Dave

  4. #4
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    I use the saw everyday at at work. It cuts perfectly square over 10’.

    I know the saw well as I have used it everyday for two almost three years. Ok maybe it’s out like 32nd-64th over 10’.

    That could be due to operator error though as we don’t have air clamps at work and I’m pretty sure the original crosscut fence is no longer perfectly flat.

    I figure I could get a new extrusion fro. Felder, Martin or Altendorf stops and all then add Brian Lambs new electronic stops to the machine along with my home made air clamps and have a pretty nice rig for very very short money that should last me the rest of my life and save me like $41000 lol..

    I have noticed the phenolic ways are scarfed together in tow places, also a few of the pop rivets are loose to the touch. The table does have a spot where it grinds and or feels like it makes a bump. The fact is the saw cuts perfect though.

    So do people think I could replace the phenolic and the wheels if need be if I was so motivated to find someone to fabricate the parts for me?
    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 11-05-2018 at 9:17 PM.

  5. #5
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    If you have the time, money, and patience, anything can be fixed. It should be no big deal to replace the ways if need be, but you may need the services of a machine shop to custom mill the phenolic for you.
    Personally, if I were to investigate this, and the plastic needed replacing, I would look at better material options for wearability

  6. #6
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    A shop I worked at in the 90's looked into having the ways done. Altendorf would send a loner bed for the saw and you sent the whole beam to Germany to be redone. I don't know what kind of cost was involved but he purchased a new one and sold the old one to a solid surface shop.

  7. #7
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    Peter,

    Might you know a good machinist willing to do this work local to us.

    I was put your neck of the woods Sunday taking a hike with the dog. Beautiful out your way. What I’d give to be able to live and make a living out your way.

  8. #8
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    Hmm,

    I figured it worth calling Altendorf.

    I think it was my Martin rep that told me Altendorf no longer does this. Worth a call though..

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Plummer View Post
    A shop I worked at in the 90's looked into having the ways done. Altendorf would send a loner bed for the saw and you sent the whole beam to Germany to be redone. I don't know what kind of cost was involved but he purchased a new one and sold the old one to a solid surface shop.

  9. #9
    if they still do it its pretty big coin,. I asked once too long ago to remember. I think the biggest effect from the wear would be cross cutting with blade tilted to 45. At 90 degrees if the table rides up or down a bit it doesnt matter, on a mitre it might or maybe not enough to matter.

  10. #10
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    Personally, I wouldn't touch a machine that has put in 32 years in a commercial shop. I certainly wouldn't pay for one, but if he is giving it to you instead of paying to have it hauled to the scrap yard, then maybe. Do you know if the pop rivets actually locate the rails, or are they bedded in epoxy, parallel to the machine, and then riveted in oversize holes for a mechanical fastening? Pop rivets aren't accurate fasteners, they swell into the hole. I think it would be extremely unlikely they locate the rails, but just my feeling. You can have the motor rewound, but have the bearings ever been replaced? I once had a motor overhauled in a Griggio. It had a skating sound for a couple of months. Found out that was the inner bearing race wearing on the shaft. They metal fused some material on it and returned the shaft. I think it was $350 to get the motor going again, in 1994. You must have one hell of a basement.

  11. #11
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    Funny you should mention that. We miter wrap all our face frames to each other and or end panels. Just yesterday this time and in a couple hours again I’ll be putting a miter the length of a 85” 7 piece panel to join it to a face frame generally I get within a 32nd to perfect over such a length with a perfect 45% miter.

    The only time I get deviation in the above situation is when my workpiece is not flat to the table as we often make out ff and panels and doors from pre dimensioned stock. Over a long length like that is the stick has the slight bow, cup or warp you will get some deviation. For paint grade not enough to matter. For stain grade it can be a deal breaker and thus stick must be flat.

    Good insight on the 45% as I did not think about testing the saw that way.

  12. #12
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    Richard,

    Normally I would feel the same exact way. And until just a few weeks ago I had been saying the same thing swearing up and down i would never touch the machine, that when my time came I would purchase nothing other than new as I did not want the potential headaches.

    Then I started thinking that the saw cuts perfect. It’s built like tank and makes newer Scmi/Felder machines seem like tin cans. We also have a T130 and two T110 shapers at work yes they are used but man they are sweet by comparison to my Felder f700Z. Makes it seem like something I got at Toys R US.

    I figure I can tear the whole machine down. Replace all bearings, probably the phenolic, paint the whole thing, shine up all the metal surfaces, replace the fence with a new extrusion and Brian Lambs digital stops and have a sweet saw.

    Yes this is the hard way and not the dream I have been having with the Martin T60C. The fact is I need or rather want to make two more major two purchases. If both of those Purchases end up Martin that’s a 80K loan for like 5 years. I’m starting to think I’d rather buy myself a piece of land out near Mr Lake above put up a small home a large shop and live La Vita Loca.. the fact is I’ll buy one of the two I just can’t see how to buy both.

    And yes my basement is pretty sweet. I’m also pretty motivated, so far there is nothing I have not been able to get in there. And the door is only five feet high lol..

    c
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Coers View Post
    Personally, I wouldn't touch a machine that has put in 32 years in a commercial shop. I certainly wouldn't pay for one, but if he is giving it to you instead of paying to have it hauled to the scrap yard, then maybe. Do you know if the pop rivets actually locate the rails, or are they bedded in epoxy, parallel to the machine, and then riveted in oversize holes for a mechanical fastening? Pop rivets aren't accurate fasteners, they swell into the hole. I think it would be extremely unlikely they locate the rails, but just my feeling. You can have the motor rewound, but have the bearings ever been replaced? I once had a motor overhauled in a Griggio. It had a skating sound for a couple of months. Found out that was the inner bearing race wearing on the shaft. They metal fused some material on it and returned the shaft. I think it was $350 to get the motor going again, in 1994. You must have one hell of a basement.
    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 11-06-2018 at 8:09 AM.

  13. #13
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    Patrick, Mark Hennebury has restored a beautiful vintage Martin slider and has it up for sale. Iíd consider that strongly.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  14. #14
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    Brian,

    It’s 20K

    For that kind of money I just assume undertake the task myself.

    There is a old T75 close to me I could have for $5K “to much” that if I put a year of day here a day there work into I could make a dream machine. The problem is tow fold. I have limited time and want to build the things I want to build when I’m not working building the things I get paid to build. The second part is I often work from home when nesssiary and need the capacity to work with sheet stock. I’m tired of the track saw cabinet saw shuffle to size carcass panels. I’m now spoiled having a slider at work and it just feels so slow and cumbersome by comparison.

    That saw is sweet though other than that nasty grey he chose. If I could setup for just my hobby/furniture/art shop as I have been at home and never worked with sheet stock that sawmwould be the choice. The short stroke a deal breaker for me sadly..

  15. #15
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    Teasing us mere mortals? I had to google "1986 Altendorf F45" just to see that this thread is about a slider/panel saw. Into the first dozen replies I was still thinking maybe a CNC machine of some sort.
    NOW you tell me...

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