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Thread: Vintage Martin T75 restoration

  1. #316
    Yeah I did a google and came up with what I know as spanner wrench.

    Now becomes the issue of ordering the right sizes. And to be honest I really have no idea how to figure out what sizes I need. Beyond that I won’t know till I need them so I’m inclined to just order set of standard various sizes. The only issue with that approach is at least and thus far looking into the Knipex circlip pliers I can’t barely figure out the sizes included in the sets.

    They are all fairly expensive and to have a set of eight show up that are all sizes usless tomme does not sound like much fun. Same conundrum with the spanner wrenches. I guess I’m just gonna order sets and build from them.

    The spending on tools can just never ever end. If only I knew how to sit still just maybe I could save a few bucks..

    It’s a viscous cycle. If you keep busy somehow you spend money, staying busily at least for me perpetuates not being able to sit still without loosing my mind. I mediate daily so I can clearly sit still I just don’t find any enjment in it unless meditating.

    I think the same goes for sitting still, you get used to planting your ass on the couch and pretty soon your wearing out cushions as apposed to bearings or tearing through piles of expensive exotic lumber.

    But man I seem to really be able to spend like a Rockefeller...

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    Face spanner wrench is the proper term. If you see any sort of threaded part with two holes on top it takes a face spanner.
    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 01-19-2019 at 10:28 AM.

  2. #317
    I have accumulated almost every size of pin spanner or spanner wrench ever made for probably under 100 bucks at auctions, garage sales or estate sales. Look on Ebay.

  3. #318
    Darcy,

    That’s a great idea. It’s a freaking spanner wrench after all.

    Is there like six billion possible different sizes or what. I assume the adjustable ones are a waste?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darcy Warner View Post
    I have accumulated almost every size of pin spanner or spanner wrench ever made for probably under 100 bucks at auctions, garage sales or estate sales. Look on Ebay.

  4. #319
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Brighton, CO
    Posts
    87
    Patrick - sorry just saw your post and I bought the t23 that was on WOODWEB in November - need some parts and cleaned up some, but it runs great. I am not sure that I will go to the extremes that Joe did in restoring his, but would like to re-paint it.18E7C1C8-4DB5-4B5F-85DC-4C73502F5C55.jpeg337BB0B9-832D-4FE3-B3EA-10B7318B9C0A.jpeg

  5. #320
    John

    That looks very nice.

    I must admit I am very very jealous.

    I hope not, but fear I may always consider that machine the one that got away from me

    Thank you for sharing though, I asked Joe about the machine and he mentioned he knew the buyer. Enjoy and use heck out it. I know this saw when Im finally done and even now pulling it apart puts a smile on my face every time.

  6. #321
    Well today was a good day as days go.

    They all are though really aren’t they.

    I got the sliding table off and taken fully apart to boot!

    After a bit of kicking of the tires and looking under the hood it seemed I could take it off in two pieces. After removing a few pieces on either end the aluminum top piece actually just slides off the cast iron half round base just as one would think it would. In my mind I had this built up as some stupid complicated and or delicate process. In the end and just like the rest of the saw thus far it was easy-peasy simple as pie 1-2-3.

    I think it took me all of ten minutes to take off the plates and about another five minutes with the help of one other person.

    The bearings to do as I was told run in large rectangular races but nothing like what I envisioned. Pictures to follow will show them. As I suspected and as the table is separated they drop out kinda all over the place. We just went slow and counted the drop 1-3 at a time and picked they up based on how many we heard drop. After the fact I wa able to count the holes in the races to make sure I had not lost any.


    The two sections revoked and sperated. I did this before work at like 7am as I said it took all of ten minutes.

    775A4185-54A5-47E8-9697-0EC765A3B4F4.jpg

    The machine starting to look like I’m up to something. I starting to see that in reality I will actually take the whole thing apart.

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    The races the bearings run in. Not what I invisioned. Problem number one or rather first part I’m gong to need to source or make. The races have and had some kind of soft felt type pads in leading/trailing edges and centers that seemed wet with oil and seemed to serve as a sweeps to keep the track and bearings clean and free of dust. Well the are toast and I really have no idea what I’m gonna do. I guess a call to Martin USA is in order to see if anyone can help.

    1D006F9B-F6B6-4883-B3BD-909A32B6ED2B.jpg


    More in a minute my battery is dying.

  7. #322
    Found one more piece that is not original and in dire need of a replacement or refab.

    It’s the handle use to lock the sliding table into place. When I purchased the machine this known was covered in tape. It looks like at some point someone tried to make a new knob. I’d say they did a very lousy job!

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    After I gotbin my eight hours I went to work stripping the cast hat round sliding table extrusion. I used a DA sander and 80g paper. The pint on the machine is all alligatored and cracks off like glass. Even the stuff that seems adhered does that same once you really get into it with a sander. I know many will say leave some paint behind as a base but it all really is junk. I’ll have much primer and bondo work to do but when it’s done I’ll be able to rest knowing it will last another 40 years.

    All in all it took 1.5hrs of snading tomget justbthe topmof the extrusion striped. The unederside of both the top and bottom are likemptrsion boxes. The paint is really flaking off on the undersides. A wee bit of compressed air knocks a fair amount off. Not enough though that i wont have to get creative removing paintnin these tight corners. I still am unsure how I’ll tackle stripping the undersides. The sandblaster seems the answer but if I go that route I’ll be waiting till spring as i need to do these big pieces outside.

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    Mmmm look at that dust, yum yum! I’m dying as I do this literally. Who knows what is in late 70’s early 80 german machine paint.

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    No reporator because clearly I’m not so smart. 55% in the shop today and like 3% outside, the hood stayed on all day today.

    I’m gonna have to get creative removing the paint for the rest of th sliding table as the sander will ruin stuff. I’m not sure. Maybe a die grinder and flapper wheel. I loath paint stripper but man the parts I can just dunk in laque thiner make all this sanding seem relay sweat equity.

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    Speaking of laquer. Tomorrow I’ll clean all,the parts to th sliding tables I have soaking.

    That’s it today.

    EB4AF3AA-428D-4C82-906F-F2EBDB76EB87.jpg

  8. #323
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Central WI
    Posts
    5,666
    You need some wire wheels and die grinders. You will find a needle scaler is pretty handy too. Dave

  9. #324
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Williamstown,ma
    Posts
    996
    Yes, definitely a needle scaler. One of those “aha” moments.
    Regarding the races the balls run in, it does appear that they run in about 1/4” thick x about 1” wide 90 degree opposing strips?
    On my machines, they are a pair of about 1” square steel block about 8’ long with a lengthwise 90 degree V milled in them. Unhardened of course.
    Interested to hear how you make out when you call Martin on the wipers.
    Newer saws use a large oil soaked- Tranny fluid is great- felt pad on the operators end of the beam which cleans and lubes with each full pass.
    The lock knob always suffers on these.

  10. #325
    Needle scaler. Order felt and make new wipers.

  11. #326
    Well I started my day scrubbing nuts bolts and a few larger pieces I had soaking in laquer thinner. The bits and bolts are now in rust remover.

    These two pieces are the handles that go on either end of the sliding table. There are two plates that act as dust plates and keep the top extrusion from sliding off the lower extrusion. They are soak also as they are steel or iron or something?

    The other two,pieces are the top hold downs for the half round extrusion to the sliding table.

    0A81F9BF-8F80-436A-B280-CDDDF0055181.jpg

    I then got to work for eight hours.

    I’m,pretty motivated to get this saw done and I know if I don’t keep at it a little every day I’m screwed. I figure 2-3 hrs a day five days a week and I should make pretty good progress.

    I got back into after work deciding to sand the top portion of the top extrusion. I had taken the whole thing apart first thing in the morning. Mostly removing the aluminum surface from the top of the top extrusion and one of the tracks the bearings run on.

    First the aluminum. One piece just came right off with a few nuts and bolts. The second one had a number of indexing pins. In all honesty I was reluctant to take these pieces off out of fear of not getting them back on perfectly flat.

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    Close up of a pin.

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    I wanted to take both tracks the beating races run in but yet again I was reluctant fearing everything calibrated at the factory 40myears ago. One seemed to be pretty obviously bolted down with no adjustment. Well I was kinda right and kinda wrong. After getting it off I noticed s number of very thin shims buried in caked on grease and sawdust. These sheiks were placed at the bolt between the track and extrusion. I’m sure they were used to make sure the track is perfectly flat as my guess is the bottom of the sliding table being cast is machined to a tolerance but maybe not perfect. I save the shims and marked exactly where they had been with a sharpie. The machines portion won’t get much of any prep anyway never mind paint somthe sharpie should work as a great reminder when it comes time to,put back together.

    The track I took off.

    AE5DCDCE-82D4-4F1F-81E5-8BAA54B8AA5F.jpg

    The shims I found between the track and table.

    236DB646-B298-41FF-8C93-41E06A58573C.jpg

    E0C62E52-8511-43E2-9D51-84B3A1C6F317.jpg

    Then I sanded what I could with a DA again with 80g. Today I figured out it’s not so much the green pain that alligators and has failed but rather the thick gray primer and or fill bellow the paint. Often after sanding through the green paint I will find the alligatoring. It looks nice and tight and smooth but if you just bump it or dig at it with the sander it comes off in chinches the shape of the alligatoring. Sadly for me this means I will probably be stripping the whole machine to bare metal.

    It’s going to be a bear of a job to not only remove the paint to bare metal but I’m gonna spend hours with bondo sand paper. Prime, fill, sand, prime, fill, sand, prime again sand again then I can put down a coat of finish. Oh well it’s gonna be nice when it’s done at least!

    The top of the sliding table with aluminum extrusions removed.

    DABD0B4A-8B34-4381-B2A8-81CBF42CB50F.jpg

    And after another 1.5 hrs of sanding followed by like 30 minutes cleaning up the dust mess it makes.

    Holly smokes this is messy messy work. I started life as a painting contractor. I remeber those first few years we’ll stripping home to bare wood with disk sanders and carbide scrappers. On a hot summer day you would be covered in a sawdust suit with nothing to be done about it. It was hard misserable work. Later in my painting career and living in NYC We would often cover old horse hair walls in 3” wide rolls of mesh tape and then slim coat everything with plaster of Paris and joint compound. This was also very very dusty messy work much like this stripping work. Man all the crap I have exposed myself to to make a living over the years. Point is I’m pretty used to huffing dust, I’m also really good at skim coating away imperfections with bondo. I just loath the work to be honest. I worked very hard to not end up a life long painter, very very hard. Here’s to doing this crap work because I want to lol.

    The finished or rather prepped top. The ripped underside still needs to be tended to. I’ll order a needle scaler this weekend and a die grinder. Is there anything I should know about the needle smaller like needle length and or count. The die grinder attachments, any recommendations. I assume I want a 90% dai grinder.

    Ok diner time,


    DABD0B4A-8B34-4381-B2A8-81CBF42CB50F.jpg

  12. #327
    Needle scaler will eliminate all the crap going everywhere.

    I was cheap and bought the HF one, fully expecting it to die shortly, it's been great for almost 3 years of hard use.
    Last edited by Darcy Warner; 01-22-2019 at 8:24 PM.

  13. #328
    That’s what I was gonna go for as I have a hf like four minutes from my house.

    I can hardly wait to see what the thing does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darcy Warner View Post
    Needle scaler will eliminate all the crap going everywhere.

    I was cheap and bought the HF one, fully expecting it to die shortly, it's been great for almost 3 years of hard use.

  14. #329
    And the beat goe on..

    Mostly more of the same today. I continued on stripping and cleaning parts for the sliding table.’

    I stared the day taking the small bits and pieces out of the rust remover soak and giving them a wire brush. So many of these nuts and bolts I could just replace but I really don’t want to. It’s such a waste of time on my part but for whatever reason it’s what mynhead is set on. Most of them are in perfect shape. My cleaning is removing the black fishing onnthem and as a result I may blue them before final assembly. See crazy I could just replace them. Many have German writing on them though and I find that of value. It’s the romance thing again, without it I wouldn’t even bother going through with any of this so to me it would be silly to cut the corner. To be able to have this saw fully restored with maybe every nut and bolt original and in as good as new working order is pretty special. To some it may be of very little value and that’s fine.

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    I’ve been filling and keeping organised various parts in the unused drawers of my giant toolbox., it’s come in very handy for not loosing track of what is what.

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    I cleaned a milking small nuts and bolts that hold the aluminum extrusions to the top sliding extrusion butnyou don’t need to see that. Trust me it sucked! I’ll be taking all this stuff to a buffer wheel with s soft wire brush at some point.

    Imthe. Cleaned the races that house the arable sized bearing the tables travel on. No I did not use the da it just happened to be sitting there. I used a maroon scotch brite pad and degreaser.

    5C088B42-1645-480F-88B3-D66552CA9996.jpg

    I also stripped and sanded the metal extrusion that bolts to the side of the top portion of the sliding table that the outrigger table clamps onto. I hate the swirl patter sanders leave on metal so I’ll try and give this a brushed finish with some kind of abrasive on a block. Im so tempted to put it through the widebelt lol but clearly I would not make that potential $17000 mistake.

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    I also took a closer look at the delaminating metal strips the bearings run in. The top extrusion and bottom extrusion each have two of these tracks. Each track has two metal stips glued into them at a 90% angle, well maybe not a 90 but something close. Previously I though one of them was delaminating for about 2’ Over the length of the 9’ rail. Well after further inspection two of them were delaminating. The only good news is they are both on the same rail. I carefully removed them both taking great care to not bench kink or mar them in any way. Now I just have to figure out what to glue them back on with and rig up some system of cauls to assure the seat properly and glue down along their full length. I shlould motivate to do this ASAP. Maybe tomorrow I call Martin. If I get them glued back on I’m nearing being able to put this all back together and see that it functions to my expectations before tearing it all down again to prime and paint.

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    That’s what I did etween 7-8:30 am. Then I got to work largely sanding and routing the edges of piles of slab style mdf doors through three grits. It really really stunk. Lots of dirty unskilled boring work this week. It all had to get done though and I’m just happy to have my job.

    After my eight hours I got to continuing stripping the top aluminum portion of the sliding table. I looked into die grinders and needle scallers last night. I’m gonna order both before bed this evening. Regardless I wanted to keep,this piece moving so I kept sanding. As mentioned prior ther is one rail mounted to this part of the table the bearings ride in, well there is two actually and the second one I removed and is the one I just spoke of. One I left on as it has a bazillion set or indexing screws along the full length of it. I fear messing with this and the nightmare of getting it setup properly again later.

    As a result my sanding and stripping was a real pain in the butt. These nuts bolts and screws where painted over at some point and getting in all this nooks and crannies and getting every drop of paint off was pretty nit picky work. Who am I kidding I love fussy work. I just don’t like chemicals, dust or carpal tunnel. All three I suffered with today.

    I should have taken a better picture of these screws, if you look at the bottom fron edge you can see them living the lenght of the table. A real chore to say the least. I really just want to take the whole thing apart as I’m just gonna paint over them in a very hackish manner. Hard oil, to swallow as I have been cruising the idiot through all this work that slathered paint over bolts. In my book or mind it’s like what kind of lazy ass does that to a Martin or naythignthey are takin the time to repaint for that matter. I can’t see my way around I in this case though so I guess maybe some day someone curses me as a hack.

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    That’s all I have for pictures so that’s probably enough out of me. My carpel tunnel is killing from typing and I have a die grinder and needle scaller to go buy.

    More tomorrow I’m sure and that will be it for the this week. Next week I glue the tracks in pu it all back together and start disassembling the huge make brackets that carry the ouriggger fence and probably the dust extraction contraption thingy on the front of the saw.




    5C088B42-1645-480F-88B3-D66552CA9996.jpg

  15. #330
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    3,222
    Patrick, enjoying this rehab. I suspect you’re a bit of a youngin’ compared to some of us. Let me just say that I absolutely relate to the romantic aspect of keeping as much original as possible, and the fun zen of cleaning every last little piece. You’ll have decades to enjoy this machine, so be proud of the fact that you know how to sand/fill/prime/fill/sand/prime, whatever. It’s a skill I don’t have, but can appreciate. Take a deep breath (well, not while sanding!), and enjoy every minute. You know what the Harley folks say...it’s the journey, not the destination.

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