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Thread: Vintage Martin T75 restoration

  1. #811
    You know brian I'm not smart enough for that route.

    I don't understand thread size with regard to length, with regard to flat shaft, threaded then coarse fine and whatever mm they are.

    I could order one of those racks of nuts with all the metric sizes. It's expensive kinda.

    But then I have to determine How to denote the non threaded portion of the bolt vrs the threaded.

    I know a quick google search and I'll be a pro.

    Your right I'll order the rack of nuts and take ten minutes to educate myself in the rest..

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    Nice work on that aluminum! The fence is shaping up very nicely. I wouldn't bother with a local hardware store, buy from McMaster, it'll arrive in two days and you'll have spares. You can spec out everything exactly.

    Just a nitpick but that's not an extrusion as far as I can see. Given how smooth it is on the interior and that type of supporting sections I think it may be a forging. Martin really does spare no expense.

  2. #812
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    It's easy. Most of your bolts are 'Socket cap machine screws', then everything else can be easily determined with a set of digital (or vernier calipers). Length for socket caps is typically measured from under the head (the head is not included in the length). Countersunk type bolts typically are called out by overall length (head included).

    You can use calipers to measure point to point to (thread to thread) for the pitch.

    They provide a detailed mechanical drawing of the bolt so that you can check everything to ensure it's accurate.

    https://www.mcmaster.com/standard-socket-head-screws

    It is very likely that your bolts are going to be standard thread pitch. It's not too common to have finer thread pitches in metric applications outside of a special circumstances. To be safe, always measure the thread pitch. To be safer still thread the bolts in carefully by hand. If they get tight immediately, stop because something is wrong.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  3. #813
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    Nice thread Patrick and great job on the restore.
    I know you said you have moved on from the table top/stains issue. I keep thinking about that. I know most guys here say move on, live with it, too risky, etc, but “most guys” wouldn’t have put the time and effort you have so far. Based soley on your level of effort, I say get the top PERFECT at all cost. All your labor and materials so far deserve the top to look AMAZING! The top is the first thing people will look at. Most importantly, its the first thing YOU will look at for the rest of your life. I know this saw is still you shop’s future “daily driver”, but again, your level of effort and attention to detail is so far above “daily driver”.
    Who climbs Mt Everest not to make it to the summit. Go for it brother.

  4. #814
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    I can appreciate that sentiment, but it would be worth checking to see if it's actually out of flat first. That would justify it in my eyes, for a couple stains it's not worth spending about 30hrs of machine time plus transport and your own lost time it's not worth it in my estimation.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  5. #815
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    You also need to make sure the new planing job is as good as the old one. Your restoration is as perfect as I've seen but a newly planed table reduces the value in my world. Original planing ridges still visible and uniform across the top are evidence that the machine was used and not abused. I've walked away from restored and reground machines in favor of original in great condition that I know is not from rehabbing. there are a few newly planed tables that match the original but very few. Dave

  6. #816
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    I have to disagree with John. I think the top is ALREADY a thing of beauty.

  7. #817
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    That’s a good point Dave. The ridges certainly are valuable.
    To clarify my post, Patrick’s Martin saw is/was ALREADY a thing of beauty. But this thread is about a complete and total restore which is why, in my opinion, it has so much interest. I am impressed not only of this restore but also, Patrick. He seems like a super hard working and humble guy who is passionate about this project. It’s hard not to follow him on this.

    To me the bar is Jack Forseberg’s Wadkin PK. His restored PK is the most beautiful old machine I have ever seen. Even with dust all over the top, it still reflects anything around it. https://youtu.be/MfYqabPXt5M


    In my experiences with custom cars, motorcycles, boats, and even my own machines, if there is something you want or need bad enough, there is someone who can do it. It’s really all about how “geeky” you want to get.

  8. #818
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    The end goal of a machine is to produce accurate work, to do so it must be itself accurate. If that requires re-machining than so be it. Inspect the surface using proper tools and see what you find and if it's within a reasonable range of tolerance. If it is not, than the decision becomes very easy, such as in my case with the Maka. The machine did not function well in its adjustments until after machining, now it moves with ease and the cutter is parallel to the table.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  9. #819
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    Patrick, The way that I did the Maka table top is pretty simple, you can't really mess it up; it's just time consuming, but it does a nice job.
    Sandblasting does a great job at deep cleaning; My work is done for resale, so you doing it for yourself can take your time and do a better job. It's just a matter of spending the time and checking your work until you are satisfied with it. Sandblasting wont remove the original ribs, or any scratches dents or gouges; so the top won't look new or re-machined; it will just look clean and consistent. I set up a clear plastic tent outside to do the blasting on large stuff. Once its done, i wire brush it which gives it a smooth more shiny surface. Then i will rub it over with a 1000/ 1200 grit water-stone soaked in paint thinner, i also spray paint thinner on the surface. Then wipe it all off and dry it. Then wipe on a solution of 50% boiled linseed oil and turpentine, let that soak in for half hour or so, then wipe off the excess, let that dry, for a day the give it a second coat.

    You can also look into a chemical clean, like Muriatic acid or some metal cleaner.
    I haven't done anything much with acid, before, so i am no expert on that at all. (Although i currently have a bunch of parts soaking in a tub of acid right now that i have to go check on.)


    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    Holly hell Mark that is just amazing.

    I was pretty much resigned to waxing the table and moving forward before I said boo about it. That was mostly due to complete defeat the result of nearly if not more than a full eight hour day scrubbing carefully to conclude that the stains are etched into the tables lower than the ribs and to remove the stains I’d have to be willing to either have the table planed, ground or use Marks process of sand blast and wet stone. Honestly I’m not the the type to ever succumb to defeat “I just try harder/work harder/keep going” but you know I realize I could screw up a perfectly good machine and after all these hours and you know about 8-9K spent at this point.

    So stains it is...

    UNLESS MARK CAN WALK ME THROUGH THE SANDBLAST WET STONE THING AND I CAN 100% not bleep up..

  10. #820
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    Patrick while your talking about the fence; I don't know if your is the same, but on mine the bolts that hold the bearings, don't have a shank that fits the bearing; and the thread is quite a bit smaller diameter than the id of the bearing, which didn't seem correct, as these are cams that you adjust the tolerance to snug the fence. So the bolt being a sloppy fit inside the bearing could lead to your adjustments changing after some use, if the bearing slips, So I turned some little sleeves to make the bolts a tight fit in the bearings. You can probably buy the correct shank bolts; and yours may already have them.
    Only a small thing, but it all counts.


    1-SAM_5632.JPG2-SAM_5623.JPG3-SAM_5624.JPG4-SAM_5625.JPG1-SAM_5630.JPG5-SAM_5631.JPG

  11. #821
    Brian are we talking about the same section of the fence.

    Attached bellow is a picture of the aluminum fence that is bolted to the side of the cast iron fence.

    If it’s smooth on the inside it’s partially because I sandblasted the inside and hand lapped the outside.

    0D38448E-4C10-4717-AAB2-F01B648418BC.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    Nice work on that aluminum! The fence is shaping up very nicely. I wouldn't bother with a local hardware store, buy from McMaster, it'll arrive in two days and you'll have spares. You can spec out everything exactly.

    Just a nitpick but that's not an extrusion as far as I can see. Given how smooth it is on the interior and that type of supporting sections I think it may be a forging. Martin really does spare no expense.

  12. #822
    Hmm,

    That’s food for thought and something I did not consider.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Kumm View Post
    You also need to make sure the new planing job is as good as the old one. Your restoration is as perfect as I've seen but a newly planed table reduces the value in my world. Original planing ridges still visible and uniform across the top are evidence that the machine was used and not abused. I've walked away from restored and reground machines in favor of original in great condition that I know is not from rehabbing. there are a few newly planed tables that match the original but very few. Dave

  13. #823
    Mark,

    Thank you for the info. The way you explained that gives me confidence. I just can’t see how sandblasting won’t potentially throw the table out of flat. Actually I would think it would make a mess with regarding flatness. I trust you though so I may practice on the random old machine we have lying around the building. There are piles of crap old machines to choose from.

    As for the fence. The inner race of the bearing you mention at least on my saw fit snug. Now you know I need to check but I wouldn’t call it a pressed on snug but not loose or sloppy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hennebury View Post
    Patrick, The way that I did the Maka table top is pretty simple, you can't really mess it up; it's just time consuming, but it does a nice job.
    Sandblasting does a great job at deep cleaning; My work is done for resale, so you doing it for yourself can take your time and do a better job. It's just a matter of spending the time and checking your work until you are satisfied with it. Sandblasting wont remove the original ribs, or any scratches dents or gouges; so the top won't look new or re-machined; it will just look clean and consistent. I set up a clear plastic tent outside to do the blasting on large stuff. Once its done, i wire brush it which gives it a smooth more shiny surface. Then i will rub it over with a 1000/ 1200 grit water-stone soaked in paint thinner, i also spray paint thinner on the surface. Then wipe it all off and dry it. Then wipe on a solution of 50% boiled linseed oil and turpentine, let that soak in for half hour or so, then wipe off the excess, let that dry, for a day the give it a second coat.

    You can also look into a chemical clean, like Muriatic acid or some metal cleaner.
    I haven't done anything much with acid, before, so i am no expert on that at all. (Although i currently have a bunch of parts soaking in a tub of acid right now that i have to go check on.)

  14. #824
    So today it doesn’t seem like I did much but got in a solid consistent three hours.

    Bellow are the pieces that make up the worm gear and mechanism to raise lower and tilt the blade.

    These pieces have been soaking in the equivalent of Evaporust for at least a month.

    I cleaned them up with a steel wire wheel followed by a brass wire wheel.

    I got into a few other things also but forgot to take pictures. I’ll get back to them tomorrow so I’m sure you’ll see pictures tomorrrow night.

    I have one cog on backwards in the pics. Probably only mark, Peter will notice.

    4DF6B674-586F-4B1C-BC9B-8C5F005E9090.jpg

    43C30171-194F-4BE5-8C99-FFFE749F3144.jpg

    585FE53B-6CE9-4036-8EBB-5D5E4AC51504.jpg

    And then I brought a few more pieces home. The fence is gonna suffer social anxiety she is gonna get so crowded.

    22C89D3F-CC94-44FD-9B30-2E78BDC271DC.jpg

    The sling table extrusion rest on and is bolted to these or rather girthed.

    279B9E2E-BF7C-40EC-A526-6744DAD236E7.jpg

    And now my daily ice cream “vegan” and cookies reward..

    I’m flattered and humbly surprised by the compliments of those paying my project attention. It’s nice to know I am giving back maybe some of the inspiration I have received fro others sharing their various projects..

  15. #825
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    Patrick, that is machine jewelry. Look at the condition of those helical gears after all these years. No delrin or cheap crap metal there. Dave

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