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Thread: Vintage Martin T75 restoration

  1. #1411
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    Princeton, NJ
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    My pleasure, Patrick! Glad we were able to resolve the issues with this machine and very glad I could be a part of that. I appreciate that you put many aspects of this project in my hands and was happy to be of use.

    Jim, next time we're planning something similar I'll reach out!

    Thank you both for your kindness and encouragement.
    Last edited by Brian Holcombe; 02-23-2020 at 3:13 PM.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  2. #1412
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    N. Texas
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    1,500
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Wow...I wish I had know you were hangin' with Brian for that work....
    Jim, I am left with no option but to recommend you move. Immediately. Don't even wait for the CNC job to complete. I'm certain the collaboration has caused a tear in the time-perfection continuum. In fact, early reports are that all perfection within 800 miles of machinery-zero has been totally consumed. With a half-life recovery of 47 years, quality work will take decades!

    I'd think St Louis or west may be your only hope.

    ...Run!
    Last edited by Malcolm McLeod; 02-23-2020 at 2:49 PM.
    Molann an obair an saor.

    If Heaven ain't alot like Texas, I don't wanna go. - Hank Jr.

  3. #1413
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    51,562
    Oh, no...now I am a-feared...

    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  4. #1414
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Beantown
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    2,458
    Jim yes next time we should plan to make that happen. I did think of you when I was down there, I figured you must be close. I traveled up to Morristown to sell a bandsaw and thought hmm how close am I to Jim. Honestly I kinda ran in then out. It felt rude a bit but I always have a agenda and never have enough time.

    Let me make clear to all Brian is fully responsible for all this work. I simply told him my issue, told him I wanted to recreate Martins current design as close as we could and that I understood it would not be inexpensive but that I would be very appreciative if he would a take on the project. We hashed it out on the phone many evening all pro bono on Brianís part till we had a plan.

    I then proceeded to ask as many questions looking over his shoulder as I could while he did all the work. I could tell right away that doing such work on a mill was well within my abilities and that I had the interest to do so. Iím just so in love with these machine and honestly such a self reliant person I wanna do it all. Plus to be able to have these machine ďaffordĒ them I have to be able to do everything myself. Brian was also very very fair in this regard.

    I will probably start looking for a mill. Then I will do my best to convince Brian to come north visit my shop and being he is a teacher school my ass..


    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Wow...I wish I had know you were hangin' with Brian for that work. I would have come over to meet you since I'm only a half hour away and have visited his place many times now. That said, collaborative work is a really nice thing and having one or more folks to do it with is a blessing. I know I always enjoy my conversations with Brian, whether via electronic means or in person here or there. ALWAYS mentally stimulating!

    And wow...that solution looks great1

  5. #1415
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Beantown
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    2,458
    It’s me that should be thanking you.

    But I already did like bromance bro.

    For real I appreciate you saying so..

    Oogled the machine a bit more today and poop it’s so pretty it floors even me.

    I’m gonna have to outdo myself at some point though because to date it may be one of the nicer things I have ever executed. Well with help of course. Lots of help, so many around here lave leant advice direction opinions, encouragement moral support. It’s quite something really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    My pleasure, Patrick! Glad we were able to resolve the issues with this machine and very glad I could be a part of that. I appreciate that you put many aspects of this project in my hands and was happy to be of use.

    Jim, next time we're planning something similar I'll reach out!

    Thank you both for your kindness and encouragement.

  6. #1416
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Beantown
    Posts
    2,458
    Giggity giggity giggity

    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 02-23-2020 at 4:31 PM.

  7. #1417
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Beantown
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    Couple dirty pictures featuring Brianís handy work front and center. The kick stop is just so sweet. Taking everything to the upteenth degree has made this project so satisfying.

    Now a cut would be nice but.

    F8F79041-A2F3-431F-B6DE-1FF0D957683F.jpg

    91A9EA3E-DFC2-4D83-94D3-02CDD60DDC05.jpg

    5D80DC5B-3CDC-4D13-AB28-175EFD82AEF4.jpg

    F4B30EDA-7061-4368-AB4A-3732BDFA9BF6.jpg

  8. #1418
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Central WI
    Posts
    5,436
    Patrick, machine art. When you put a dial on the fixed table, how much variation on the slider as it moves? If you move the subtable to the back so the whole thing can be flush with the front, is there any lift up on the sliding table? I've always lusted for the T75 for the flush option but the 8' seemed a little short and 9' are really rare. Can't wait to see it run. Dave

  9. #1419
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Beantown
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    Dave.

    Zero lift up no matter how hard I try at either end. It was Peter whom directed me to do this when I went to look to purchase the machine and then again a number of times when I was calibrating the machine when putting it back together. I had the sliding carriage apart as I had to glue one of the hardened steel ways back on. I was snake to closely inspect the wear. It was no more than the 2002 t73 I was previously working on. And no uneven wear. I got a really really good saw when I got this machine.

    I was suspect as the one hardened way was flapping around inside the sub table and table making a terrible noise. At the time I had no idea the problem and almost passed on the machine as a result.

    Dial indicator sitting on cast table with indicator tip on sliding table reads .01over its length. But it seems the first 6” of the leading edge dives down because if I move the indicator and base back this six inches my reading is like .003-.005. I think I have that right I’m terrible with indicators regarding getting the math right.

    For the most part it changes a whole ten lines over its length. However like I said if I just drop back six inches from the leading edge. Pretty much right behind the cross cut fence it’s between .003 and .005.

    I don’t know if that’s good or bad. I suspect compared to a new Martin Scmi or Altendorf it’s probably terrible?

    If you want one I’d buy one. I noticed one on WOODWEB that if I had the cash I’d buy just to have for parts in the event I need something or just to hoard.

    Yeah the 8’ table does totally suck in the world of sliders but for me in my shop it’s actually perfect. I do loath tending to sheet stock any other way than a sliding saw and I’m never gonna own a panel saw. But then you know when I can’t work 100amp stock I actually and really get mad I don’t have a full 12pm table as things can get tight even on a 10hp’ table.

    I’m am that bitchy about machines. I hate having almost the right tool but not all the way. Seems like such a waste when if you had just spent a wee more money you’d be good. And yeah but still I purchased this machine.

    Honestly I’m doing all this In anticipation of retiring someday and not having money to build a shop anything like this. As such when I retire I’m pretty sure I’ll never touch another piece of plywood again. So people will say then why a slider. To them I say clearly you have never used one as they are handy for so many tasks above and beyond sheet stock.




    Quote Originally Posted by David Kumm View Post
    Patrick, machine art. When you put a dial on the fixed table, how much variation on the slider as it moves? If you move the subtable to the back so the whole thing can be flush with the front, is there any lift up on the sliding table? I've always lusted for the T75 for the flush option but the 8' seemed a little short and 9' are really rare. Can't wait to see it run. Dave
    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 02-23-2020 at 8:08 PM.

  10. #1420
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    492
    Patrick great work! That should outlive all of us. Brian, great work as well.

  11. #1421
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    Princeton, NJ
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    Thought you guys may enjoy some process pictures. The bearing is an 'Angular contact' bearing, double row rated for thrust. My first task was to bore a hole in the aluminum block and press in the bearing.

    fullsizeoutput_1359.jpg

    Next I had to square the sides of the shaft, followed by boring holes to receive heavy shoulder bolts. I wanted a piston fit on these so that they could act similarly to pins. The shaft is 303 stainless that I had custom made for this project. The attachment point to the end of the outrigger was the difficult part in all of this. I sourced weld nuts which would receive the shouldered bolts. These have a protruding boss which was able to engage a receiver. To keep them from moving as they were tacked up I decided the boss would need to be installed in a bored hole (exact size), and further restricted by being seated in a groove the exact width from flat to flat. The shouldered bolts are 316 stainless. The shaft, jam nut (316 stainless) and bolts will never rust.

    GJoR3JM9QEumVy03nXeOLw.jpg

    GGfgTSd%TF2yrvCmZN5T8g.jpg

    9wNfxjOBQwmmQaFVjE5Beg.jpg

    Once Patrick arrived with parts in hand we began the work by setting up the outrigger table on the Bridgeport. The goal was to remove the cast boss which was damaged and unable to properly retain the shaft. As originally designed, it left much to be desired in terms of precision and ease of movement. The design was that of a steel shaft plugged into an aluminum hole and intended to rotate without easily accessible grease or oiling points (you'd have to take it apart to grease it).

    fullsizeoutput_1394.jpg

    What I did not expect was that the boss was slightly offset from the center of the outrigger support. My bearing would not allow for much offset, though I did offset it slightly once I was aware of this. We discussed that effect of moving it closer to center and recognized rapidly that it would affect the clearance when the outrigger was at its smallest position. Patrick had a great number of reference photos, so we had good information to work with, knowing what clearance was left there and giving us the ability to make reasonable assumptions on what course of action would be successful.

    I milled up a receiver for the aluminum bearing block. The fit between receiver and block are exactly precise. Holes were bored for the bolts and bolt holes tapped in the outrigger table.

    fullsizeoutput_138b.jpg

    My theory in this has been, when in doubt...go heavy! As example, the bearing is rated for 2650lbs static load. I also wanted to use a ball bearing due to the fact that it would eliminate the clearance necessary between a plain bearing and a shaft.

    Next up the outrigger arm was trimmed to remove the original attachment.

    fullsizeoutput_1399.jpg

    The plate welded by way of tacking, checking, adjusting, adding more tacks, checking, adjusting. This was a long process but the results were good, square to the machined surface on the bottom of the outrigger tube.

    fullsizeoutput_1396.jpg

    The bearing and shaft were joined using a retaining compound rather than a press fit. This is easier on the bearing for sure, the retaining compound is loctite 680 and once it cures the connection is rock solid. It has 4000 psi shear strength.

    Finally the outrigger support had to be trimmed back to allow clearance for the shaft, given the smaller offset between parts. I didn't photograph this part, however. Patrick took some great photos of the finished result so I didn't take any there either.
    Last edited by Brian Holcombe; 02-24-2020 at 9:07 AM.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  12. #1422
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Inkerman, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    591
    Incredible job Patrick, what a fine looking machine, you have made it into a museum piece. I wouldn't be surprised if Martin offered to buy it from you for their museum.

    Nice work Brian.

  13. #1423
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
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    Thank you! You all should see Patrick's paint work in person, exceptional would be an understatement, every surface is like a sheet of glass.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  14. #1424
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Edmonton, Canada
    Posts
    2,263
    This is an amazing job all around by both Patrick and Brian. Jaw dropping...

  15. #1425
    Quote Originally Posted by mreza Salav View Post
    This is an amazing job all around by both Patrick and Brian. Jaw dropping...
    No kidding. I feel like I'm not even worthy to look at the pictures! Great work, and countless thanks for sharing all this!

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