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Thread: Vintage Martin T75 restoration

  1. #1276
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    Your giving me to much credit also but I’ll admit I like it as I’m pretty proud of this one.

    In all honesty the paint could be better for what it is I tried to do. It’s far from bad but there is a bit of particulate here and there along with a some orange peel be it from separating to wet or to dry. In all honesty I think the paint job is great it just needed to be color sanded before assembly. I have since learnt and or knew shortly after I finished paint but had yet to assemble the saw that this was the case. I was tired and admitted to myself I was human and a little scared to ruin everything if I botched the color sanding.

    If I get either of the two shapers I’m talking about mane decide to restore to this level again I’ll surely wet sand next time. Then i would have to agree with you. I assure you if you stood next to the saw in a museum you would say this is the most piss poor restoration I have ever see “what hack made this mess”.

    Honestly that is how I feel even though I pretty proud and generally happy. It could be better so I hope the next one will be.

    It thank you and keep the compliments coming it truly does help as I’m tired, broke as I’m still spending on this darn thing and yet to round the corner to the finish line.

    Sadly I gotta go help a friend hang some exterior doors she made in the cold today. I’m totally not excited, not even a little.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Kumm View Post
    Patrick, that is turning into a Museum piece. I hope you do a video of it in action. Dave

  2. #1277
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    Patrick, my restores have gotten pretty good but not at your level. The good news is that using the machine gives you the real pleasure and soon the paint is covered with a light coating of dust. Soon your eyesight gets poor enough to cover the other flaws. Dave

  3. #1278
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    Beautiful! Very enjoyable to see this saw come to life.

    I think doing this kind of thing just makes you want to do again and see your improvements bring another machine around. I’m sure you’ll do it next with the shaper.

    It’s addictive, I’ve worked at places that would say ‘no’ to everything I wanted to get done around the shop or store, with very few exceptions. Working for myself and building out my own shop, it’s nice that when I want to make improvements that I’m the only person standing in the way, so to speak. It’s enjoyable to see the shop improvements turn into production improvements, safety improvements and quality of experience improvements.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  4. #1279
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    Looking good!

    BTW, can you put in a few "utility" grade/appearance fasteners that are the same threading to eliminate the need for the shrink film?
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  5. #1280
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    Definitely looks like a saw now!
    Very nice.

  6. #1281
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    Well right now my machine is at the point itís all show snd no go.

    It needs to be calibrated bad. If I was to use it right now there would be zero joy. Iíd be wanting to wing stuff across the shop the mess it would be making.

    The good news is I have looked it over with a straight edge and I can at least see whatís going on and I think I know what to do lol...

    When it is up and running you are right, nothing like using a machine that dies what itís supposed to do do you can just focus on your work.

  7. #1282
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    I identify with your experience and sentiment greatly Brian.

    I am about to take a new job in a new shop that is quite antiquated vrs where I just left. Itís kinda funny in a uncanny way. The shop I a, leavening when I started with them was just terrible. It was a hodge podge of crap equipment acquired on the cheap. Not one machine was really even hooked to dust collection which is nuts being they had two 5hp dust collectors. The machines that were were done so in such a jury rigged way that they barely collected dust. The machines just spewed everywhere and along the walls were dust piles at least 12Ē.

    Even after a few years that shop was still a bit of a mess being the boss could not really afford to dot all his iís and crooks all his tís. The cost of paying me to get everything hooked up then calibrated when buying used machines just was not realistic and you know Iím sorry but Iím not doing something that takes a day or two of free.

    The irony is the new position I have accepted in a new shop is somewhat the same minus the mess. These guys are hospital clean and Iím very very excited about that. But they are building with like 6Ē powermatic jointer maybe itís 12Ē but it looked tiny from what I remember. Maybe a 20Ē powermatic planer but again old and not Tersa. So Iíll be learning how to setup knives properly in short order as machinery maintenance is part of agreed job title. They have a crappy lacuna slider they donít use as I guess it wonít stay square a cabinet saw. Drill press, tiny band saw, grizzly radial drill press thatnim told is a poc... and if I remember thatís it. My new boss is open to adding to the machinery but man coming from where I am he has a long long way to go and I suspect he may well never even want to get there. He mentioned spending for tax reasons before years end and has asked for my input so thatís a very good sign. But you know he mentioned a sander and when I dug deeper his idea of sander was like a 15Ē performax or something.

    But the facts are itís the Indian not the arrow. I just helped a friend of mine hang a exterior door today. Mostly as she is not string enough to manage the door herself. Anyway, her shop is comprised of homemade router tables that look like they were made out of dumpster scraps that sat in the rain for ten years. Her tools are largely contractor tools she has been using for Iíd say 30 years. And her work is well pretty good. It is 100% good enough for that her clientele expects.

    I have stupid high expectations ďas I think you doĒ as to the product I provide. Hence I recruit every and try to stack all the chips in my favor that I can. Machines and the such are the starting point for me. Itís cool though to see others whom take a different approach have equal success. I asked for a chisel today to mortise in the door. I was directed to a roll and told I just shared them yesterday. I had to dig through a pile of stuff that probably made sense to her but looked to me like stuff ready for the dumpster. When I opened the roll I found a only Stanley yellow plastic handled chisel, it was razor sharp and shared well ďcompletely square and a proper bevelĒ it was however like maybe 1Ē long. Instantly she won my respect as it was clear ďAs I already knewĒ she was the real deal, a old timer and had been at it maybe as long as I have been alive. Ok thatís a exaggeration but.

    We will see what the new shop Iíll be working in brings. Hopefully they are open minded and willing. As for my shop well Iím going so broke over it all. Driving to work today I came up with another $2500 to spend on the saw without a fancy pants outfeed table or electricity. I came a with a real number of $5K as I insist on buying Macís clamps for it even though I could build them.

    Iíll buy one of the two shaper or both I guess but honestly I donít have the money right now to buy both Ďbarley even oneĒ then itís gonna have to sit for god knows how long till I can get financially prepared. Iím sure Iíll spend $10 between purchase and restoration minimum..

    Like you the thing I enjoy about my shop best is there is nobody to tell me ďyour nuts, thatís not neededĒ and sorry but no

    .... m
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    Beautiful! Very enjoyable to see this saw come to life.

    I think doing this kind of thing just makes you want to do again and see your improvements bring another machine around. Iím sure youíll do it next with the shaper.

    Itís addictive, Iíve worked at places that would say Ďnoí to everything I wanted to get done around the shop or store, with very few exceptions. Working for myself and building out my own shop, itís nice that when I want to make improvements that Iím the only person standing in the way, so to speak. Itís enjoyable to see the shop improvements turn into production improvements, safety improvements and quality of experience improvements.

  8. #1283
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    Thanks Peter.

    Itís nice to see it come together. Iím glad you like it. Iím pretty nervous you know regarding your opinion along with the quality of the finished product as you know I fully expect one of these days you will see the machine in person. This thread has really built what Iím doing up to this saw being a oracle of sorts. Itís not perfect but itís the nicest machine I have ever seen you know thereís that..

    But Iím glad you like it, for some reason it matters to me that you do.

    There are a few people around here who s opinion I really do care about. Itís weird how you can gain respect for someone via the interweb in this digital age that you donít even know. But oddly enough it does happen and you do end up caring.

    Quote Originally Posted by peter gagliardi View Post
    Definitely looks like a saw now!
    Very nice.

  9. #1284
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    Jim,

    A simple faster would not do. The missing piece pictured installed on the machine bellow actually are specific and needed to keep both the bearing and race from sliding out.

    94234DA8-DBA1-472D-ACD8-F8EFF02B1380.jpg

    The green plates on the end with the two spring indexing pins actually bolts onto the bottom sliding table extrusion. These pieces, one on either end of extend up into the area the bearing slips into the tracks they travel on. It for the most part just creates a couple gas so the bearings can just fall out.

    B7C4F0A5-49C1-4605-A157-674DFB67E8F7.jpg

    The small almost triangle brackets with a small bolt trough them on a indexing pin actually extend just enough to keep the linear races from sliding out.

    I was going to paste the small triangle shaped stops but now thinking about it the tracks the bearings travel in get oiled weekly by hand under normal use and the oil will only cloud the plating. Beyond that the races can bounce off them and that would long term just cause then plate to chip. So I just saved myself a few bucks and the sliding table is fully assembled and functions like a charm. Itís so smooth with a unreal substantial feel vrs a modern saw.

    and
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Looking good!

    BTW, can you put in a few "utility" grade/appearance fasteners that are the same threading to eliminate the need for the shrink film?

  10. #1285
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    Feb 2015
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    Couple more small details.

    I’m pretty sure as previously mentioned I have every factory accessory this machine originally sold with. Not the 9.9hp motor but I do know of a t17 local with a 9hp motor and if it’s still there when I have the cash on hand I will purchase it and swap the motors.

    The accessories re the few pieces I have lagging behind in need of prep and paint. When the ha sweep is back from the machine shop then the plater it also needs a bit of paint. My plan is to paint the last few piece at the same time. I may never use any of these accessories but they sure will make great historical wall candy for the saw. I have actually been using the wedge style clamp for the last year or so at work on the t73 as we don’t have clamps. For sheet stock it actually works very well.

    Miter gauge, wedge clamp...

    Also these small aluminum hold downs came with the machine. I’m not sure they are original but the t slots guides sure make it seem they are.

    8203826A-D22A-4846-BB56-D5B9D1CAE694.jpg

    B5EB6359-2F32-4FDC-ABAB-A2C7BA45DDA7.jpg

    And just a couple nice shots. It sure will be nice to get the hand wheel back. I still can’t decide on brass scales to match the rip fence or aluminum as in keeping to the original design.

    3E1F6D09-5996-417A-94C1-A13FD884020D.jpg

    6F7D13A7-3576-44B8-9A9C-C0DC3FCB9896.jpg

    14383B1B-3F25-4A01-98A3-CB65002BEED0.jpg

    And I got a my bench back again, can’t tell you how excited I about that part.

    09586735-AA76-4F08-9F67-D6C7BA9C2CAE.jpg

  11. #1286
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    Now the nonsense begins.

    I got lucky, the air clamps I made a few years ago to fit my Felder mortiser and shaper are also a perfect for for the t-slot studs that came with the Martin aluminum hold downs I posted earlier. With no modern aluminum extruded table to run the air lines through I’m gonna have to figure out another solution that will not require any hole drilling or alterations to the machine as it is now. I maybe able to run them against the underside of the top table but the clearance is slim. Worst case they may have to mount to the front side in some fashion.

    The machine also came with a modern Felder crosscut fence. I had honestly though “no way I’m using that thing” but now with it on the machine it’s actually a nice upgrade from the original that I don’t feel takes away from the vintage and or original design of the machine in any significant way. At the least I can feel good I’m not making any permanent alteration to the machine I can’t reverse. If the air clamps don’t bother me I guess the fence should not.

    436F2C36-E9C1-495F-ACB9-8CE73D590DB4.jpg

    Modern take on my vintage Martin..

    0BDC512B-8F3B-4427-A07D-8CA4FCA7E580.jpg

    95901E23-63C1-4C57-A764-DE843E64B3F6.jpg

    79704DE7-A7A0-41F9-BF54-4DAA14768357.jpg

    I spent some more time with a dial indicator a straight edge and some shims. I have found issues pretty much everywhere.

    The sliding table has zero adjustment with regard to being coplanar to the cast table left to right if standing in front of the hand wheel.The cast table must be shimmed to the sliding table in this regard.

    The sliding table does have adjustment for height and or it being coplanar front to back or as if you are walking up the side of the machine with the sliding table. The adjustment is vert straight forward and pretty intuitive. Again kudos to Martin for keeping it simple.

    The outrigger table on relationship to sliding table is also riding a slight bit high. As a result when a strain edge is run from the sliding table proper to the outrigger support table the straight edge is held up high due to the outrigger table. I have some ideas for fixes but have yet to really dive in.

    The cast table seems it will have to be shimmed up front right working side and a bit back right. It’s pretty bad front right as I figured out before I even had the sliding table on. I’m not to concerned with the above issues as I feel fixes are perpetual straight forward and this kind of setup and tuning is to be expected with any machine. Honestly I bet I could make cuts with it as is and I’d get consistent square cuts.

    The real issue I see than nothing can be done about is the aluminum material held down with bolts is totally not flat at all. It’s out to the tune of at least .0010-.0015. That’s a crap load in my book and I’m not happy. I figured this out last year when putting it back together after paint. So I was fully expecting this and knowing I wasn’t going to be happy. Hence why I started suggesting replacement material for these aluminum sheets. Shims will do nothing as there are simply valleys and rises between the bolts that hold the material down. It is what it is. Honestly for what I use a slider for I don’t see this mastering much but I’d be lying to say I don’t care. Honestly I’d go to pretty much any length to correct it if I knew 100% I could get it to within like .002 regardless of cost or headache. But you know I don’t see what there really is to be done.

    So my plan of action is shim the cast table to the sliding table. Adjust the arbor so the blade is 90% to the now shimmed tables. Then adjust the toe of the sliding table up down and left right. With this done and the stupid aluminum tables on the sliding carriage I’ll never be better than .0010 the length of the sliding table. Honestly it’s only a couple areas the length of the table that throw it off more than .004 but it wrecks my head none the less.

    Regardless I’m still very very happy. I’m sure I’ll iron all this out and the saw will work a charm and aid in me building some pretty nice crap..
    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 12-08-2019 at 6:24 PM.

  12. #1287
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    Patrick, do you have your decimals right? I've never seen a slider within .001-.0015. Chasing a thou is pretty hard.

    My old SCMI slider also has no adjustment on the slider so the cast needs to be shimmed. In addition, to get the zero point 45 correct on it I had to shim where the trunnion attached to the base to compensate for the shimming of the cast iron. Dave

  13. #1288
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    Mar 2003
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    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    I agree that the modern fence on the outrigger is a useful thing. That saw is looking great to-date!
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  14. #1289
    Patrick,

    The saw is looking great--an impressive rebuild. Will look forward to seeing in action...perhaps a video or two?

    Best,
    Chris
    "You can observe a lot just by watching."
    --Yogi Berra

  15. #1290
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    Well Dave 2:45 Sunday night and I have to be to work in 2.5 hrs..

    I just spent about 7 hours chasing a thousandth I guess.

    I think I have my decimals right.

    I had to shim the cast table but I got the sliding table at least the blade edge side to .004 or four lines on a dial indicator. Most of it is within .002 or two lines.

    Iím still not happy as the sliding table itself is out left to right about .010 this I know is right as Iím using shims.

    I canít figure out how to adjust the sliding table left to right but Iím sure it can be done. There are little brackets that articulate in the triangle towers that hold the rail but you know getting them to do 2-3 different things is very hard..

    Iíll probably leave it now and just wait for power to make some cuts.

    The hand wheel is not in nor the motor so Iíll also have to tend to the trunnions Iím sure..

    Tired, so tired feeling a bit crazy at the moment..

    Havenít been up this late in over ten years..

    QUOTE=David Kumm;2972113]Patrick, do you have your decimals right? I've never seen a slider within .001-.0015. Chasing a thou is pretty hard.

    My old SCMI slider also has no adjustment on the slider so the cast needs to be shimmed. In addition, to get the zero point 45 correct on it I had to shim where the trunnion attached to the base to compensate for the shimming of the cast iron. Dave[/QUOTE]

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