Vintage Martin T75 restoration

[Patrick Walsh]

Thanks Mark.

I have a couple questions for you later in the day. I need to take a couple pictures first. I was able to get the keys out of the shafts to both the motor and the hand crank to the blade. A slide hammer with attached vise grips make it easy as pie.

Yeah the spray gun is incredible. I’m not just saying this either. It really is 100% noticeably nicety with regard to the way it lays down paint. It’s might be blingy but it also works better.

Great job, Patrick. Nice looking spray gun.

[Patrick Walsh]

I’m glad to hear you think the color is perfect. I suspect I might be slightly color blind as people are always calling colors I see as blue green, green or green as blue.

I’m also you like the gloss as I also really like the gloss. I was able to see the semi gloss of this paint on a couple metal doors prior to making my choice. The semi just looked like cheap run of the mill latex or something. I couldn’t do all this work then go that route.

This project has me fully wanting a full on state of the art down draft spray booth. I know, I know why, it will just sit as do all my personal shop tools for the most part while I slave away making box cabinets. The. Yeah how do I fit it in my 1000sq ft basement shop. Well I’m still toying with selling the house and moving a bit out of the way to a property with a proper ground levelout building for me to have a shop. Again some say why you don’t even need a shop and I kinda agree but you know someday I’m gonna retire and I’m gonna make stuff without pocket screws but joints and plywood lol..

[Kyle Stiefel]

Patrick, I have been following this thread from day 1, this is my favorite long term thread. Your dedication and work ethic is truly remarkable. It is great you are finally getting to see the results, outstanding man! And you killed it with the color, sweeeet. Keep it coming as I sit on my couch, watching the kid, hoping to have a shop again later this year.

[Joe Calhoon]

Patrick,
i am liking the color also! How did you go about the match? I am going to ask Martin if the old green was a RAL color.
True, the Wasser Blue has changed a bit since they started that.

[Patrick McCarthy]

Patrick, you nailed the color. Looks great. Perfection is a worthy pursuit and you, sir, are almost there.
Best, the other Patrick

[Kevin Jenness]

Patrick, my friend has an old T75 with heavily worn ways that throw the sliding table slightly out of true. Your description of regluing the wear strips and a mention in the Canadian woodworking forum you linked to about flipping them over for a new surface has led me to suggest that he do just that. My question is, how does one remove the original glued strips, or were yours loose from the get-go? Heat, solvent, mechanical persuasion?

Your spray booth woes are all too familiar. The shop I used to work at just set up a new open face recirculating booth with charcoal filters and an air curtain which is a dramatic improvement from the old setup that strained all the incoming air through the old barn walls and blew it out the stack. It was a large investment, but they have been paying for it for many years without having it.

One thing their finisher did in the old spray room that might improve your situation was line the walls with sheet metal followed by peel-away booth coat and the floor with heavy paper taped down, both renewed periodically. Your photos suggest that booth could use a good hosing out.

Nice to see you are on the home stretch. Putting all the pieces back together will be cool.

[Patrick Walsh]

Kyle,

It’s nice to hear people like the color. You know the whole autobody paint thing is new to me. The way it works is you go and they shoot a existing piece of the machine has to be at least 3x3” and flat with this thing that looks like one of those old slide viewers. You know the ones that look like a pair of binoculars. Or it kinda looks like a giant stamp they might have at the post office. Anyway it’s it’s own thing no wires so I’m not quite sure how it works.

My bigger point is they shoot it and you get what you get. I guess the little gadget is pretty accurate but sensitive to light getting under the lense in the cape of a not perfectly flat piece. Otherwise I was told it’s 100% accurate. Anyway you but a $400 gallon of paint that’s actually only 80% of a gallon if you can believe that and if you don’t like it you buy another one.

Maybe they can screw with it but I didn’t ask. They handed it to me and I just took it. I didn’t even crack the lid and look at it.

Keep up hope for the shop. Where on NH are you?

Patrick, I have been following this thread from day 1, this is my favorite long term thread. Your dedication and work ethic is truly remarkable. It is great you are finally getting to see the results, outstanding man! And you killed it with the color, sweeeet. Keep it coming as I sit on my couch, watching the kid, hoping to have a shop again later this year.

[Patrick Walsh]

Thanks joe I’d appreciate that. Wish I had thought to ask from the get go. I gotta contact Martin about all these bearings. I got the motor apart for the most part so I should call soon.

Refer to my last response to Kyle for a explanation on the color match.

Patrick,
i am liking the color also! How did you go about the match? I am going to ask Martin if the old green was a RAL color.
True, the Wasser Blue has changed a bit since they started that.

[Patrick Walsh]

Kevin,

The metal strips on my machine were indeed loose at a couple points. One more so than the other. The one that was very loose came off very easy just using a thin putty knife very carefully to lift it off. The other that same. I used laquer thinner to help things along and to clean off all the old glue.

Honestly getting all the old glue offf with laquer thinnner was a bear. It came off in layers very very slow.

As for the spray booth I couldn’t agree with you more and I have thought about much of those options. They even sell a costing you can spray on the walls that resist paint from sticking to them.

The whole situation is a giant quagmire to be perfectly honest. The booth belongs to my uncle whom rents in the building and has a exhibit shop. He doesn’t use it but has it for legal reasons as they spray a ton of contact cement and at some point he was forced to instal it. He is a generous guy and let’s every tenant in the four story building use it. The guy that uses the booth the most was our old finisher. Well he still does out finish work but my boss let him go for a number of reasons. Anyway that guy has been spraying in this booth for 20 years and he is the one using it 90% of the time like 40-60 hrs a week. He is a wicked slob like hoarder junk collecting slob. Everything thing he owns is a piece of shit and if it’s not it is in a very short amount of time. He has a tide about paying to maintain things like filters yada yada as he feels others also use the booth and why should he shoulder the cost. Others feel he uses it 90% of the time and why should they pay to take care of it when this guy trashes it and doesn’t want to pay to take care of it.

Some the whole thing is a everybody ha da on their noses saying not it situation. It’s a pretty pathetic show of human nature if you ask me. The place is also piled high with 50 gallon drums and single gallons gallore of paint slop. Half used gallons miss orders you name it. It’s s freaking poop show.

So you know I think I’ll try to organize everyone contributing to the upkeep of the booth regarding filters. If they don’t want to then I’ll buy filters for the whole thing and when I’m spraying de instal them out em in a box and only use them when I’m spraying.

As for putting up metal or paper on the floor the issue becomes nobody namely the guy that works in the booth the majority of the time is gonna upkeep it. Then you know I’m pulling teeth to get into the booth around his working I. It and I have a short window to get my work done. If I spend a half day prepping the booth “picking up after his messy ass” then I only have a half day to paint. This paint needs. Minimum of 8 hours in the booth at 75% to cure properly and even they it’s still not really dry.

Today when I moved my pieces out they had a drying skin on them but they were far from dry.

So you know I’m kinda in a pickle over the whole thing. It’s big old mess...

You gotta love humans and how considerate we are of others right

Patrick, my friend has an old T75 with heavily worn ways that throw the sliding table slightly out of true. Your description of regluing the wear strips and a mention in the Canadian woodworking forum you linked to about flipping them over for a new surface has led me to suggest that he do just that. My question is, how does one remove the original glued strips, or were yours loose from the get-go? Heat, solvent, mechanical persuasion?

Your spray booth woes are all too familiar. The shop I used to work at just set up a new open face recirculating booth with charcoal filters and an air curtain which is a dramatic improvement from the old setup that strained all the incoming air through the old barn walls and blew it out the stack. It was a large investment, but they have been paying for it for many years without having it.

One thing their finisher did in the old spray room that might improve your situation was line the walls with sheet metal followed by peel-away booth coat and the floor with heavy paper taped down, both renewed periodically. Your photos suggest that booth could use a good hosing out.

Nice to see you are on the home stretch. Putting all the pieces back together will be cool.

[Patrick Walsh]

Wow busy day, spring has sprung here in Boston.

Between this project the normal yard work and in my case crazy yard work as I have a specamin tree and Bonsai garden it’s nuts. Add to that my front porch and house I have totally had ripped apart for like three years and I have committed to having fully back together come next winter and I’m a busy busy guy.

So I had to go in to unload the booth this morning. The paint needs at least 3-8hrs in a running booth at 75% to properly cure. Even then the technical data saiz it’s not fully cured for 30 days.

And boy was the data sheet and guy at the autobody supply place right. It barely had a dry skin formed over it after 9.5 hrs. Again this complicates the hell out of this whole thing as the booth is not mine and at best I can spray and leave my pieces overnight but I have to get them out first thing the next morning.

The color seems to darken a bit. All and all everything looks very good but you know I can find something wrong with every piece that has me inclined to buff everything out and repost when it is finally dry.

If it’s not a couple pieces of particulate here and there it’s a bit more orange peel than I’d like. Honestly I think the orange peel is minimal and I probably did a good job as a two stage outobody paint would be wet sanded and polished when it was fully cured. I’m incesantly looking at every car I walk by or any painted metal object comparing my work to it. Honestly many of these parts have less orange peel than most cars I notice. It’s the wee bits of particulate that are wrecking my head.

Anyway I think the color got a wee darker as the paint cured. I’m pretty darn happy with the color. It’s gonna be pretty nice with the nickle plate and the brass rule on the rip fence.

Still in the booth but on the way out..

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My reflection in the workpiece. This is one of the pieces with particulate in it that’s pissing me off.

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I had to find a place in the building free of sawdust as the paint is barley dry. Not such a easy task. There is some vacant office space. It requires a long walk with each piece as there is no way to roll a cart into the space.

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[Kevin Jenness]

Yeah, as my friend who runs that shop says, "Who loves misery more than people?" It's the tragedy of the commons, everybody uses but nobody wants to be responsible.

The same guy has a friend who works in a shared shop in Brooklyn where they each have their own tooling, Tersa knives, sawblades and so-on for the shared major machinery- cuts down on the fingerpointing I guess. It's a real pain when everyone is not on the same page in terms of maintenance, cleanliness etc.

It's funny how the finishing operation can be the most neglected when that is what the customer sees and feels.

[Patrick Walsh]

More pictures cuz they don’t fit above.

Look at the clouds reflecting i this piece from the window just out of view. This piece has more orange peel than I’d like but no particulate. Each piece and it’s own deal breaking imperfections

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You can see the reflection of the geisha I have tattooed on my hand in this piece.

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And the the reflection of the trees outside in this one. Dismiss the center piece. I don’t suck that bad, my gun ran out of paint and that was the last piece so I decided get a coat on it even if to skinny and just sand and recon it later.

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The rip fence. This piece is almost perfect. The pain is a bit skinny in one place and or I didn’t keep a wet enough edge and it flashed. Bummer as it’s so freaking close to perfect.

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And proof I got the motor apart and haven’t been on vacation. Well there is one more bearing down near the fan and I have no idea how to remove it as the fan is not bolted on. It’s probaly also pressed on, I haven’t really explored yet. I just got stumped and left it as it was getting late and time to go home that day. I figured I’d ask joe or Mark as I bet they know. I need to take a better picture for them of the are that has be puzzled again.

Good news is I’m gonna be able to make the motor as perfect as the rest of the machine!

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And that’s it. Four hours in the shop this morning. Another six in the yard and then another couple cleaning the house. Tomorrow is a full day in the shop sanding up another batch and at least my intent was to spray. I. Half second guessing spraying and thinking maybe I should just sand then get all the new filtration stuff Monday and get back to paint again next weekend. I hate to put off painting but I also hate to knowingly accept crap results. Honestly I probably have a full days work to sand everything else out to 800 grit re tape yada yad. I could then spend the rest of the week doing the prep work on the motor for paint and trying to disassemble the rest of the machine.

I’m a long ways from home plate at this point but it feels nice to see some color.

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[Patrick Walsh]

I couldn’t agree more with you regarding everything you just said.

And your friend I guess. I don’t much care for most people hence probably why I keep myself so busy working so much. Once in a while someone comes along that doesn’t piss me off more than they do. Even they I’d rpretty much rather just be working away by myself doing whatever.

Yeah, as my friend who runs that shop says, "Who loves misery more than people?" It's the tragedy of the commons, everybody uses but nobody wants to be responsible.

The same guy has a friend who works in a shared shop in Brooklyn where they each have their own tooling, Tersa knives, sawblades and so-on for the shared major machinery- cuts down on the fingerpointing I guess. It's a real pain when everyone is not on the same page in terms of maintenance, cleanliness etc.

It's funny how the finishing operation can be the most neglected when that is what the customer sees and feels.

[Jim Becker]

That's working out very nicely...but "holy long cure time, Bat Man!"

It's kinda normal for most paints to slightly darken as they dry, BTW.

[Patrick Walsh]

Yeah I’m with you on the cure time. There are three activators. I think fast, super fast and slow. All require a consistent temperature at a specific temperature for a set amount of time. All three differ with regard to the criteria.

I was chatting with a another guy that works in the building today as he heard the booth running first thing in the morning and went to check and see if someone left it on by mistake. He noticed my parts and I had to give a explanation for leaving the booth on over night. When I mentioned dry time his response was it’s autobody paint that can’t be right. A product geared toward production could never actually take that long as you’d never get any production done.

Being it’s airplane paint then used often for tractor trailer trucks and fleet vehicles I also really wonder how on God’s good earth it makes any sense with regard to cure time.

Even for this project “minor” it’s presents a whole nether layer of issues and things to consider and work out.

It as first developed and largely used like 30-40 years ago so you know I suspect technology has come a long way since. Much like many things though if you really want quality corners can’t be cut, often in this modern world we cut corners to Dave time to keep cost down to make our products obtainable and competitive to what the other guy is doing.

Through this project I have come to understand people still use this product quite a bit but pretty much only in a industrial setting where and or boats where durability is a real consideration. Otherwise I’m pretty sure people jsut use something easier to work with.

It’s the same as conversion varnish. People say it’s the tuffest finish going and nothing compares. And with regard to spilling chemicals on the finish or leaving rings from hot cups it is. Maybe slightly tuffest regarding dings and chipping but honestly I think people are so enthralled by it cuz even a hack can get good results with it and maybe more important the re coat times are blistering fast and the stuff powders out 123..

Imop though the fact that it can’t be repaired on site for the most part is a complete deal breaker. You know it still dings and chips and imop quite easily so at least for me their is no benefit being it will chip and ding and then what do you do. One ding at st a time the dings add up till your kitchen has no choice but to be ripped out thrown in a dumpster and replaced. To me that makes zero sense. I can’t tell you how many kitchens I go back to within a year of being installed and or we get calls regarding chipping and the job looks like garbage. Then with little dabs of cv brush plied everywhere ithardely lols like the high end custom cabinets people expected.

That's working out very nicely...but "holy long cure time, Bat Man!"

It's kinda normal for most paints to slightly darken as they dry, BTW.