Vintage Martin T75 restoration

[Patrick Walsh]

Brian,

I have not loosened the table. I’ll give that a try and see if it affects anything.

The way it is mounted should allow for shims at at least two of not all four points. The reality is that there is a lot of cast iron not supported to the right of the blade.

The wedge style look awesome, even a bit neater than the ones I found at McMaster. There I found some the adjust with a set of spanner wrenches.

I’m not familiar with the table attachment points but is the table still registering as out if flat when it is loosely attached? If there is a way to check, then check and see if perhaps the mounting can be shimmed.

As example. The rack on the Wadkin had a nice bow to it and was contributing to the tables out of flatness. It wasn’t the entirety of it, by any means, but it had affect.

[Patrick Walsh]

Oh yeah there is a cost differential. Both materials are expense but that richlite stuff is crazy expensive. I have had a hard time finding pricing online but what I did find suggested a 4x8x.75 sheet is just under $1100...

As Brian suggested long ago don’t keep track of the money spent on a project like this as you are gonna be way way way upside down.

This table will cost me at least $500 with 80/20 and phenolic. With richlite I suspect $1000. Then the leveling feet are another $150 a piece. I spent another $125 at McMaster Carr today. Have a apt for a guy with a EPDM machine to burn the rivers out of the hand wheel and to fix the cast aluminum extrusion to the rip fence. God only knows what that will cost. Then the plater again, that ain’t cheep. Then having the scales made for the hand wheel. Then a phase converter and new service to my house.

Holly smokes man I know how to spend money. Oh and then a stack of brand new blades probably Leitz or Kanufsa. At the least Teryu. I gotta get me the 16” blade I’ve been dreaming of for years now.

As for the tables well I’ll give Brian’s suggestions a attempt. There again I could easily spend $7-800 on a sterrett straight edge. And what good is the straight edge without a giant surface plate to check it against. It can go on and on and on if you let it..

There may be a cost differential between it and the phenolic, but I don't know.
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On the tables, I wonder if them being off the machine for so long "released some tension" or something if they checked out fine previously. Very strange. Are you using the same reference tools this time as last time?

[Brian Holcombe]

Starrett I’m in Athol, Ma. If you buy one of their straight edges I wouldn’t be surprised if they let you check it against one of their surface plates if it’s giving questionable results.

[Patrick Walsh]

What in the hell are you doing in Athol Brian?

Starrett I’m in Athol, Ma. If you buy one of their straight edges I wouldn’t be surprised if they let you check it against one of their surface plates if it’s giving questionable results.

[Brian Holcombe]

Sorry, that should read ‘Starrett is in Athol’.

[Patrick Walsh]

I figured but you know.

You never know. I would had been shocked thought considering the holiday and the storm..

Man want is a disease. I have wanted the starrett 72” straight edge and a at least a 24x24 surface plate for quite some time. That a Wilton vise, a baldor grinder and low speed polisher the list goes on and on.

But that straight edge is a serious serious issue of lust vrs cost. I always have something else I need. Like $600 of leveling feet for this dam machine since you brought the stupid subject up

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Sorry, that should read ‘Starrett is in Athol’.

[Brian Holcombe]

Hah, you know I tend to cause that kind of trouble Are their bolt holes where one could attach feet? If that were the case I might be tempted to try the ones from McMaster which were $50~ ea.

The funny thing with surface plates is that the bigger ones can sometimes go cheaply (used) because no one wants to deal with the weight.

[Patrick Walsh]

As I think is obvious I don’t need any help going overboard and getting all OCD about stuff. But you know in the case of you I welcome it as I often learn something new. Hence these wedge feet.

Personally I really like the idea of them vrs the ones that bolt on through “yes the holes I have in the base” as then I don’t have to worry about a catastrophic accident and cracked cast. Not that I can see it eve happening but if I put a machine dampening mat under the saw and then the wedge feet I feel pretty good at 3300lbs or whatever it never moving a inch.

My problem in all reality with the surface plates is weight. I find them all the time on Craigslist. A fiend actually just sent me a link to a old brown and sharpe 72” camelback level. But you know I have no idea if it’s flat “chances are not” then what I’d have to do to get it in good working order, “whom I’d take it to.

Honestly I really like it and would rather have it over a Sterrett but it seems like it could be a can of worms being I’m not already in the know regarding how to tend to it.

Hah, you know I tend to cause that kind of trouble Are their bolt holes where one could attach feet? If that were the case I might be tempted to try the ones from McMaster which were $50~ ea.

The funny thing with surface plates is that the bigger ones can sometimes go cheaply (used) because no one wants to deal with the weight.

[Mark Hennebury]

Unfortunately Patrick.... you can't go half-way down the rabbit hole. Once you step in, there is no coming back, it's like quicksand.

Meet you at the bottom.

As I think is obvious I don’t need any help going overboard and getting all OCD about stuff. But you know in the case of you I welcome it as I often learn something new. Hence these wedge feet.

Personally I really like the idea of them vrs the ones that bolt on through “yes the holes I have in the base” as then I don’t have to worry about a catastrophic accident and cracked cast. Not that I can see it eve happening but if I put a machine dampening mat under the saw and then the wedge feet I feel pretty good at 3300lbs or whatever it never moving a inch.

My problem in all reality with the surface plates is weight. I find them all the time on Craigslist. A fiend actually just sent me a link to a old brown and sharpe 72” camelback level. But you know I have no idea if it’s flat “chances are not” then what I’d have to do to get it in good working order, “whom I’d take it to.

Honestly I really like it and would rather have it over a Sterrett but it seems like it could be a can of worms being I’m not already in the know regarding how to tend to it.

[Patrick Walsh]

Yes mark I’m in trouble.

Other than my carpal tunnel I can see I’m screwed with these machines. I honestly enjoy the process as much as I do building from wood, no more no less. Well I do not really care for the dirty work of stripping to bare metal but everything else is great fun honestly.

But I’m finding I’m just not setup to do everything I would like as my expectation brings me to the precipice of perfection. I’m not keen replacing parts with new off the shelf. I’m more inclined to want to repair the old part. Just little bits and pieces I can see the need for a number of metal working machines and then all the tooling and gauges that go with it.

I’d be fine with that all but I just don’t have the space.

I have two shapers right now I could pull the trigger on and I just might if I can strike the right deal. If that be the case this saw is just the beginning. My uncle will retire in the next five years and then I will not have access to the type of spray booth I can do down and dirty work in. I’ll have access to one maintained like a laboratory but I’m not gonna be allowed in it with a old beastly machine.

Plus just the tear down and the preparation makes a mess. Not a chance I can do that in my shop. So I think I’ll take full advantage of his shop while I can and get my shop outfitted just as I like. Two more shapers preferably a Martin t23 non sliding table and T23 sliding table. A Maka “but maybe I just purchase one of yours”? A giant Wadkin lathe or Oliver if I can’t find the Wadkin and Wadkin chisel mortiser. I also wouldn’t mind replacing the sawstop with a a vintage beast of a saw either but I have not researched what machine that would be.

That’s a list of itself that at one machine a year if I kept at it I would fall maybe a machine short before he retires. Plus you know one machine a year with a full tie, job sounds exhausting to both my body, mind and bank account. But I gotta do t before I can’t.

W

Unfortunately Patrick.... you can't go half-way down the rabbit hole. Once you step in, there is no coming back, it's like quicksand.

Meet you at the bottom.

[Patrick Walsh]

Well another snow day here in Boston. Probably did not warranted as I went to work yesterday in the snow. The forecast had the worst of the storm slated for 5am till 12pm and I figured not screw around being the new van and all. It has this lane assist feature that applies the brakes and whips you back into your lane when you go over the white line to your right or the yellow line to the left. With black ice I found this to be kinda scary to say the least. I’m pretty sure I can turn the feature off but I have yet to take the time to figure out how.

With that said I decided to hang with the pooch get the driveway and walkways clean enough to eat off and muck around with the bits and pieces on the saw. I took the time to figure out the odd screw pitch and size to kissing bits and pieces or damaged bits and pieces. Amazingly I have one damaged kip lever to source and one tiny Allen head set screw/pin thing. Other than that I lost nothing after nearly a full year of this and the saw traveling from my shop at work to my shop at home. Goes to show being totally anal retentive and over protective pays off in spades.

So mark might I ask a favor. I don’t know how to order kipp levers regarding the length of the shaft with regard to threads vrs the flat. You know one side has more thread than the other. I also just stink at determining thread size. I have a pitch gauge but nothing else. I imaging this lever is the same on your saw and knowing you you know it’s exact size and if not I have a feeling could figure it out pretty easy. It’s the kip lever to lock the trunnion. It’s very important to me to just replace the screw portion and not the kip lever as i have every other level that came with the machine and I really want it to stay that way. So far I don’t have a single replacement bolt anywhere. Ok that’s a lie, the shroud that covers the backside of the outrigger arm has had all the Allen head screw replaced as a number of them were stripped and cross threaded. Other than that just the one missing set screw I mentioned last chapter above.

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How about this, for anyone in the know with this machine I believe the wrench and grease guy are original to the machine. I won’t be vulgar but man this gets me seriously excited having everything all original not altered and functioning properly. Ok I tend to the cast table but I’m pretty sure that’s gonna work out just fine. I just gotta get he saw in place and leveled then I’ll screw with it.

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[Patrick Walsh]

Then I revisited the fence. I spoke with a shop yesterday to tend to removing the rivets from the hand wheel. I also mentioned the rip fence and he felt he could tend to it. With that said I had a little prep to take care of before handing it off to him. Namely removing the wanky laminate I had put on it along with the plastic strip applied to the bottom ack edge previously I suspect as someone’s attempt to repair a out of square fence.

I don’t know what they were thinking with this strip as it was oriented in the wrong place to correct the issue. If anything it should had been on the top of the fence. And yes I had the fence oriented properly top to bottom being it has holes along the top to mount a sub fence and or jiggery. But you know someone easily could had done the repair and forgone those stupid holes.

White strip some knucklehead I think added. Maybe it was there from the factory but I doubt it.

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The more I delve into and explore this fence thing I begin to think someone had a accident with it and made a crap repair. I’m thinking the wood and laminate are part of that fix. Like maybe they drove a blade into it, then took it to the edge sander and took it way out of square. Possible the application of the wood and laminate were part of the solution.

You can clearly see in the picture the taper to both the aluminum and the wood/laminate

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I don’t know maybe this was Martins way of making the piece complainer to itself front and back but I doubt that also.

Whatever happened it’s not gonna fly for me as it ugly as all get out.

It is however with my botched aluminum laminate job pretty much dead nuts square to the table. The trailing edge dives out slightly.

Front

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Middle

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Back

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Chris’s square tells the real story..

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[Patrick Walsh]

I could dimension up a piece of stable wood and make a sub fence for the and the whole issue goes away. And I just might end up doing that. It really depends on what this machinist has to say. I would much prefer get that hack repair off and then make that sub fence of of phenolic, delrin or that richlite product. Whatever one had the tightest tolerance related to flatness. If anyone knows of a material that is scientifically flat and would make a appropriate fence please chime in.

The saw with the fence with my hack laminate job is a total eye sore in contrast to my handy work with the rest of the machine. I gotta tend to this in both a functional and ascetic manner.

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That’s about it. Honestly it’s a bit of a bummer at this point more than anything else that this project is wrapping up. I’m in no real position to spend on much of anything else right now with the rest of the bits and pieces I have to sub out along with a new electrical service and phase converter. I’m tempted to buy the leveling feet then the 80/20 and some material for the top and get the machine perfectly dialed then bring electricity to it when I can do it and breath at the same time. The fact is my cabinet saw is up and running and my shop just might be more functional now than it was before I dragged this saw home. So maybe I will go that route. It does seem kinda nuts to spend on anything prior to getting lower brought to the machine though. I gotta play the lottery man as I got a bad problem..

[Mark Hennebury]

Hi Patrick, I will look tomorrow to see if i can find the handle specs.

[Patrick Walsh]

Mark,

Thank you,

I think it’s one of these.

https://www.mcmaster.com/catalog%2f125%2f2663

And I think it’s M12 1.75?

Do you happen to know anything of delrin. Or could you suggest a plastic like acetal or phenolic that is flat enough for “our taste” to make a sub fence?

Hi Patrick, I will look tomorrow to see if i can find the handle specs.