Vintage Martin T75 restoration

[Mark Hennebury]

Patrick, before you can check anything, you need a reference surface. If you are checking off of the table you need a flat table. if you are using a square you need to check and verify that its square. then you need to check and verify the cast iron fence is perpendicular to the table surface, then check your aluminum fence is straight and parallel. before mounting it. If your cast iron fence is not perpendicular to the table top out can scrape it in,( or shim) it is not a large surface area to work. If its the aluminum fence that is not parallel you can easily fix that. You could even do that with a router. Screw the fence down to a table, fasten a couple of 2x2's either side for rails and run your router over the top,( the face that attaches to your iron fence) like people do when dressing large planks with a router sled. Lots of ways to find out where the problem is and lots of ways to fix it.

Then I revisited the fence. I spoke with a shop yesterday to tend to removing the rivets from the hand wheel. I also mentioned the rip fence and he felt he could tend to it. With that said I had a little prep to take care of before handing it off to him. Namely removing the wanky laminate I had put on it along with the plastic strip applied to the bottom ack edge previously I suspect as someone’s attempt to repair a out of square fence.

I don’t know what they were thinking with this strip as it was oriented in the wrong place to correct the issue. If anything it should had been on the top of the fence. And yes I had the fence oriented properly top to bottom being it has holes along the top to mount a sub fence and or jiggery. But you know someone easily could had done the repair and forgone those stupid holes.

White strip some knucklehead I think added. Maybe it was there from the factory but I doubt it.

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The more I delve into and explore this fence thing I begin to think someone had a accident with it and made a crap repair. I’m thinking the wood and laminate are part of that fix. Like maybe they drove a blade into it, then took it to the edge sander and took it way out of square. Possible the application of the wood and laminate were part of the solution.

You can clearly see in the picture the taper to both the aluminum and the wood/laminate

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I don’t know maybe this was Martins way of making the piece complainer to itself front and back but I doubt that also.

Whatever happened it’s not gonna fly for me as it ugly as all get out.

It is however with my botched aluminum laminate job pretty much dead nuts square to the table. The trailing edge dives out slightly.

Front

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Middle

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Back

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Chris’s square tells the real story..

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[Patrick Walsh]

Well my square is square so saiz Chris vesper. The package it came in is marked as to its exact tolerance. It a couple years old so is it still square “who knows” I guess if I had a surface plate with a sweater edge that was certified I could check.
I can check it against another of his squares that was certified like AAA and as far as he said 1 out of however many makes actually comes out so accurate.

I do get that if the cast table is not flat and I check the fence to that I know no more than I know now. As a result I check the fence for perpendicular in a couple spots on the table that I knew where flat “at least I think” based on a “12 straight edge i also believe to be flat”.

I know non of that is exactly verifiable but until I shell out for a certified and very large surface plate and a piece of land with a dwelling big enough to keep it it’s the best I can figure on doing. I completely get that checking my fence against a screwed up table top tells me little.

I like your idea for the fence and router sled. I’m still gonna let the guy with EDM machine take a look and give me his thoughts on it. I don’t know why I didn’t think of the router and sled myself.

/

Patrick, before you can check anything, you need a reference surface. If you are checking off of the table you need a flat table. if you are using a square you need to check and verify that its square. then you need to check and verify the cast iron fence is perpendicular to the table surface, then check your aluminum fence is straight and parallel. before mounting it. If your cast iron fence is not perpendicular to the table top out can scrape it in,( or shim) it is not a large surface area to work. If its the aluminum fence that is not parallel you can easily fix that. You could even do that with a router. Screw the fence down to a table, fasten a couple of 2x2's either side for rails and run your router over the top,( the face that attaches to your iron fence) like people do when dressing large planks with a router sled. Lots of ways to find out where the problem is and lots of ways to fix it.

[Brian Holcombe]

My Starrett and Mitutoyo squares came with certs, the Starrett is square to .0001”, I still check them against my reference angle plate.

There are big granite standards available pretty inexpensively. I had planned to buy one before I came across someone willing to scrape angle plates for me.

I assume Vesper’s stuff to be perfect, but it was transported and so one can never know until it is verified.

[Mark Hennebury]

It would be nice to have all of the best metrology tools and equipment and a temperature controlled clean-room, but you can get by with a good basic understanding of relationships and some pretty basic tools. In cases where i can, i prefer to check and verify, rather then trust. You can own a nice expensive square that came with high specs, but that doesn't mean that you can trust it. They may not be up to spec from the manufacturer, they may get out of spec from damage. To be sure you need to be able to check and verify it yourself. Squares can be made out of sheet metal, plastic, wood, plywood, granite etc.. You can make your own, you can make a huge one out of plywood with a couple of screws in one face so that you can adjust it, to tune it in.

If you use two square to "verify", checking one square against another, it is an exercise in faith.
If you use three you get facts.

Take the example below;
1st you need a straight edge or flat surface. ( of course that needs to be checked and verified too.)
Using three squares and a straight edge. first photo.

sq1.jpg
Use the red as your reference.
sq2.jpg
Check the blue square against the red.
They fit perfectly. What does that tell you?
It tells you that they fit perfectly, that they are complimentary angles.
sq3.jpg
Check the green against the red.
They also fit perfectly; what does that tell you;
It tells you that they fit perfectly, that they are complimentary angles.
And that the green and blue are the same angle.
It does not tell you what the angles are.
sq4.jpg
Now check the green against the blue.
this will show you any error from 90 degrees.
If all squares are 90 degrees they will fit each way that you check.
In this example the red was 91 degrees and the green and blue are 89 degrees.
sq5.jpg
Two squares could give you a false positive reading, three squares will show any error.

[Patrick Walsh]

Thank you mark. The third makes all the sense in the world as does the verifiable reference surface.

Closest I have is my jointer table.

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I did the third reference with the little silver guy also.

Is say Chris is a pretty talented guy. I think took all three of these squares to my fence on the Martin and they all told the same story. So unless my jointer table is out exactly what I need be to show a false plastics on all three of these squares I’d say I’m probably good.

The table on the saw Howe’s is still out of flat. Just not in the short distance these squares can measure. I’ll be buying a sterrett or cast iron suburban tool straight edge when I get to the the setup portion of this with dial indicators and all that Jazz.

[Patrick Walsh]

Got a couple packages from McMaster Carr today. Man this place is gonna be my new drug. And empty my bank account. I have know of them for years but never delved in.

The outrigger support arm has 1/8 aluminum back plate. It was dented in a few spots. As a result it would pinch the inner arm in a couple place making for articulation to be less than smooth in a couple spots.

I ordered some delrin. The choice was based on it being slippery and it coming in black as I wanted it to be black. I also wanted something that would not dent again. I suppose this could crack but it’s 3/16 so I kinda doubt it.

The wavy paint are dents. On the inside they are worse as the paint and a bit of body filler leveled them out a bit. I didn’t go crazy on this piece with paint as I knew I’d replace it sooner or later.

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I’m really happy with the black. I’ll do the rip fence in the same black maybe not this material as it is not what I expected. What arrived was stickered and labeled delrin from McMaster Carr but it was shiny and not extra slippery as I know delrin to be. I’m not sure if there are different grades or types of delrin but this is not what I expected. As a result i sanded the outside to the mat finish I was expecting.

The best part is the arm slides right along like it’s on rails. It should as it literally is. Look at those two giant bearings. These more you can’t see inside on the other end.

[Patrick Walsh]

I also got my shim washers.

I got the arbor together and it all works great. Spins so smooth with the buttery new bearings. I still think that shield needs to be replaced as I can hear it spinning free. I believe this as I think the ID had a rolled edge that seated against the shim washers. I screwed it’s up pressing the arbor apart. I can hear a noise like it’s spinning just a hint here and there independent of the arbor. So know I gotta figure out what that piece is called so I can search McMaster car for a replacement.

Arbor looks pretty even with a used blade on it. Gonna be sweet with darcy’s Riving knife

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I also spend a few hours of my day at a machine shop. I was told by a friend of a friend I needed a burning wire EDM machine to remove the rivets in the handwheel that hold on the scales. Anywho I found one Monday and was able to go meet hem today. The good news is they can take care of everything. Removed the rivets. Remake new rivets, they can even reproduce the scales on a laser engraver that burns the engraving into the piece. Kinda like the original scales but instead of the engraving bing back filled with pain to make it black it’s the burn itself that will make it black and it will be next to impossible to wear it away without going nuts trying to sand it off. They also can handle the sub fence to the rip fence. I don’t have a price from them but I was told like a $200 for the EDM work. I suspect all said and done I’ll be in for $1000 for everything. This shop was anything but little. I think like 35000msq ft and 27 employees. Doing medical and military work only for the most part. I think I’m in good hands but only time will tell.

[Mark Hennebury]

Patrick, the handles that you asked me about; if its a 12mm diameter stud the thread is 1.75mm A 10mm stud would be 1.5mm My saw shipped out last week so i cant check it. but i checked the threads on some of the handles that i have.

[Patrick Walsh]

Thank you mark..

Patrick, the handles that you asked me about; if its a 12mm diameter stud the thread is 1.75mm A 10mm stud would be 1.5mm My saw shipped out last week so i cant check it. but i checked the threads on some of the handles that i have.

[Patrick Walsh]

Gonna make it quick tonight.

Well feeling like there is little left I “can” without parts out for repair or help I decided to get to,less exciting stuff tonight.

The bearing races for this saw are massive. They have felt on the leading and trailing edges. This felt serves two purpose. First it keeps dust out of the bearing and bearing races by sweeping the tacks the bearings travel in. The felt get oiled regularly and the sticky nature sweeps it all up. Martins modern saws still share this same exact feature but with a added reservoir of of oil at the leading edge of the table.

Being those pieces can not be prices for this saw I killed for over a year wondering half assed like what I would do when I really got to dealing with it. The old felts has a odd shape when removed and I wondered how I would ever replicate it.

Well it was easy. Cut a bunch of 100% wood form felt into the desired size cube. Soak them in oil then stuff them in the holes orienting them at a 45% angle. So much for sweating the small stuff. What I though migh pose a major problem was a piece of cake. The 12x12 square of felt “smallest size I could buy” was $75 though!

Looks crude but I promise the pictures just stink.

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Then I was stupid what can I do to keep forward profess. Well I decided to get daring or reckless actually as one wrong move and my prized paint job was screwed.

I used that nifty harbor freight lift cart to get the table off my bench. I then rolled it over to the winch. I strapped and slightly lifted one side. I then slid the cart to the other end to support the rail at two ends. I then rolled the machine over right next to it. I carefully lifted one side in then the other. That’s it easy peasy. Again mountains and mole hills. It gets silly how we can complicate things that are actually so easy.

Now I think I will need help for the female portion of the table. Maybe not though maybe I can Mcgiver something up?

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All done..

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Starting to really look like a saw now.

It feels so nice to be as thrilled and happy with the result as I had hoped I would be. Now those machined parts just gotta go well and I’ll be golden..

[Brian Holcombe]

Well done, Patrick! That's an ingenious way to do it!

[Patrick Walsh]

Well I just can’t stop..

I keep thinking with this project that I’m gonna need help with so and so and then I find a way on my own..

This stupid poc winch from harbor freight.

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I’ll be perfectly honest. This was a real pita by myself. I first tied to drop the table on the top race full of bearings then instal the bottom race and bearings. I also tried to instal the races at opposite and apposing ends of the table. This was a giant failure and honestly left me in a pickle and all jammed up wondering how to get what was now a half together sliding table and jammed up a bit unstuck and not injure anything.

A bunch of head scratching and frustration later I figured it out. I then put the top and bottom race and bearings in one bearing at a time alternating from top to bottom one felt and one bearing at a time. Honestly it was a piece of cake. Clearly I’m a looser for not knowing this the first go round.

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Sadly I have what are four small stops at work sitting waiting to go to the plater. As a result I had to shrink wrap take the table together so it would not all fall apart.

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You will notice random bolts on the saw that are not original, these are waiting to be plated.

That’s all today, I’m tired and I have to work tomorrow.

[Mark Hennebury]

Patrick, you are restoring my faith in humans; we are in a sad and scary age were people no longer try to figure things out on there own, they just google or ask on the forums, its nice to see you putting your brain to use.

[David Kumm]

Patrick, that is turning into a Museum piece. I hope you do a video of it in action. Dave

[Patrick Walsh]

Your giving me way to much credit.

Between your t17 and joes t23 restoration i had some seriously good cliff notes. And believe me I’ve done plenty of googling.

But yes this project has given me plenty of opportunity to use the old noodle.

This project in all honesty has revealed and or taught me a bit about myself. In all honesty I’m not sure if it’s that I complete mad and feverishly OCD and fiercely independent and should take notice and get a grip, or if as you said I. So many words I should be proud. I lean toward the later and actually don’t question it as I’m pretty happy being who I am just the way I am but this project has made clear to me just how unique I am. Very few people would have the desire never mind then all myriad of skill both mechanical and mental and mostly commitment to follow through this project has taken.

And that’s not putting myself on a pedestal but rather an admittance to what might be wrong with me as for me it’s the easiest thing in the world. I suspect to many it would be pure torture..

But again I did this far from on my own. But yes I had to figure out the questions to ask,where to ask, then get my rear end to work.

I’m far from done yet.

Patrick, you are restoring my faith in humans; we are in a sad and scary age were people no longer try to figure things out on there own, they just google or ask on the forums, its nice to see you putting your brain to use.