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Thread: Vintage Martin T75 restoration

  1. #826
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    Dave,

    I know right.

    I meant to add above that these gears have now become my favorite aspect of this machine. They kinda just say it all.

    Simple, functional robust well thought out design.

    Long before the days of a group of spoiled twerp millennials sitting around a table trying to one up the other all the while waiting to ride their Segway to the company's nap room.

    Oh boy it's not even 6am lol

    Quote Originally Posted by David Kumm View Post
    Patrick, that is machine jewelry. Look at the condition of those helical gears after all these years. No delrin or cheap crap metal there. Dave
    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 04-12-2019 at 9:41 PM.

  2. #827
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    Brian are we talking about the same section of the fence.

    Attached bellow is a picture of the aluminum fence that is bolted to the side of the cast iron fence.

    If it’s smooth on the inside it’s partially because I sandblasted the inside and hand lapped the outside.

    Attachment 407790
    I was incorrect above, Most likely it is a casting.

    The way extrusions are made is to heat aluminum then push it through a die with a hydraulic ram, after which it stretched to become straight. This allows only linear shapes, so something with webbing can't have been extruded.
    Last edited by Brian Holcombe; 04-12-2019 at 9:24 AM.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  3. #828
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    Patrick, to say you are inspirational is, in my opinion, a big understatement. You represent the character of a younger person that any parent would be proud of.

    The fact that you use your time in life to learn and create and do the best you can at all times, far exceeds a life to earn and consume and dispose, IMHO. To tell you the truth, while working on various projects, I now look at a joint or finish or whatever and a voice keeps saying “what would Patrick think?” As a matter of fact, I just veneered a thin piece of ply and it twisted a little on me. In the past, I may have said good enough. This time around it went in the trash can.

    So even though I have zero plans to undertake a restoration, and am primarily a hand tool guy, I look forward to seeing your progress, and look even more forward to seeing what level of excellence you’re been able to accomplish.

    Thanks for taking the time to share this.

  4. #829
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    Wow Phil that’s quite the comliment. I’m not quite sure I deserve it. I often think about all the time I spend perusing self fuffiling pursuits largely selfish and about my own satisfaction. I then can’t help but think man if I put that much energy into helping people who really needed and deserved help now that would be something.

    But I guess I’m selfish as I just keep heading deeper in to my self absorbed work hole.

    The truth is my work is not perfect. There’s always something. Maybe that something is something only I will every know about but that something drives me nuts till I conceide to it and just move onto the next project. Sure I will never leave something that structurally or functionally compromises whatever I’m doing but like all of us I do have to say at some point “I’m just gonna have to live with something”.

    The last two things I built for me for instance. Those df and ayc passage doors, the finish, I wanted them to be French polished as impractical as that is for a door. And I was and am dead set against laquer or conversion varnish. Guess what they will get one or the other.

    The dovetails for the jambs were not the prettiest and I do get one little splinter of tear out where the panel comes to the style on one door and have to make the best of it. Then I was making the jigs for the hinges and one tipped over and landed on the fence to my jointer. It put a nasty dent in the top rail. The only good news is is the inside of a closet door. But you know it drives me nuts. Any repair is worse than leaving the dent. I steamed it out best I could.

    So you know perfection is mythical a least for me. I just try really hard and largely always fix my mistakes As apposed to see by them. But still you know there’s always something on every piece even the ones that come so close to being perfect have something.

    As a cabinet maker, not like Brian or Chris’s Hall cabinet maker but crap plywood cope and stick garbage kitchens I am learning that often perfection is not needed and that even though something is not perfect it can still be very very nice especially to those who are not makers themself. Now to a true maker the work I do m-f for $$ is pure garbage.

    If you saw the crap I let go you wouldn’t be paying me the compliments you are. I don’t often share pictures of my 9-5 as honestly it’s nothing I’m proud of it’s just a means to end that I can find more enjoyment in than some of my other options.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Mueller View Post
    Patrick, to say you are inspirational is, in my opinion, a big understatement. You represent the character of a younger person that any parent would be proud of.

    The fact that you use your time in life to learn and create and do the best you can at all times, far exceeds a life to earn and consume and dispose, IMHO. To tell you the truth, while working on various projects, I now look at a joint or finish or whatever and a voice keeps saying “what would Patrick think?” As a matter of fact, I just veneered a thin piece of ply and it twisted a little on me. In the past, I may have said good enough. This time around it went in the trash can.

    So even though I have zero plans to undertake a restoration, and am primarily a hand tool guy, I look forward to seeing your progress, and look even more forward to seeing what level of excellence you’re been able to accomplish.

    Thanks for taking the time to share this.

  5. #830
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    Not much to share today,

    I did get a couple hours in before work. After work I had to run a few errands. Namely I had to go pick up the hardware for the df ayc passage doors I made over my holiday vacation. And guess what Iím so freaking broke now it is pathetic!

    In true tradesman fashion I have no health insurance. Taxes are due next week and for he first time in my life I owe Uncle Sam vrs he owe me. This is because I made so much last year and also because I donít have health coverage and pay he fine for not having. Yup Iím stupid in so many ways. Monday. Be along the day off and going to get health coverage.

    Anyway Iíll post hardware pictures over in the passage door thread I made. I really need to take e a couple days and get those doors hung and hardwared. It kills me to slow down on the saw right now though as Iím getting so close.

    I went through all the motor parts this morning. Now I just need to order bearings and I can put it back together.

    5EA2EAC0-3D07-4234-AD4C-1B70982CD288.jpg

    I also pulled the masking tape off a few parts i painted last week. Believe it or not itís time consuming taking the tape off like it is putting it on.

    Donít worry mark the upside of the trunion is still masked ďnot paintedĒ....

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    And I recruited help to flip the cast able so I can sand blast and paint it this weekend. Honestly I donít think I need to sandblast it. I think a good cleaning with some degreaser and wire wheel to ge the pitch off and itís good to prime and paint.

    The perimeter I did strip to bare metal when tending to the top.

    3E77B902-AB11-4E9D-8823-06507A8AAD88.jpg

    Tomorrow I sandblaste the base in full. I will be done or I dint come home till it is. Then Sunday I get prime on he base and top along with polyester. This will set me up to spend all next week sanding the poop out of the base making it absolutely perfect. The base I will treat like a cars paint job. There will be no concessions made. I will block out the whole thing till itís absolutely seamelss. I will also see to it the paint layers down as nice as the nicest car. I will also color sand it so any reflections donít distort due to orange peel.

  6. #831
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    You know Brian and I misspoke, I knew it was a casting just like all the other aluminum parts on this machine. With all the webbing what else would they be. This piece also a few air pocket on its top side that created hollies or craters.

    Let me see if I can find pictures.

    Attachment 407869

    90AE82F7-F155-4D52-9340-BB1DB9987A64.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    I was incorrect above, Most likely it is a casting.

    The way extrusions are made is to heat aluminum then push it through a die with a hydraulic ram, after which it stretched to become straight. This allows only linear shapes, so something with webbing can't have been extruded.

  7. #832
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    Ok that was one miserable day.

    I sandblasted for 7.5 hours straight without stopping. I know it was .5 hrs straight as I started at 11:30. At 1:30 I taped the trigger to the gun open because both my hands were so sore from holding it for so long. I’d put the gun in the base when I refilled. The sun started going down so I had to stop, it was 7:30. It took a hour to sweep up six bags of media.

    Thank god for that full face respirator I purchased to paint. Sadly it has to go in the trash as I can’t see through it anymore from being peppered for seven hours straight by sand. Sand got everywhere, I felt like a little kid at the beach complaining of sand in his pants. At one point I laid down on the ground to get under the dust port. I turned my head to the side and and I felt like someone took a funnel and bucket of sand and just poured it into my head. On went the ear protection.

    I gotta go back tomorrow and clean a few little things up along with the underside of the base. I don’t think I’ll be painting as planned. I opted to spot blast the rust on the inside as it was in great shape. The fact is I only stripped the base because the paint was failing between the cast iron and body filler. In areas it was obvious and large delaminations. In other areas you would never know till you hit it with compressed air or the sand blaster and it let go in big chuncks. Most of it was good but I’m not taking any risks with paint failure at this point.

    I’m tired, very very tired. My ears are ringing and my hands and back are sore.

    I’ll take my time this week after I’m done blasting and wash the whole base with Zepp or laquer thinner. I’ll then hit the whole thing with rust inhibitor. Then I’ll do the large body filler shoot it with epoxy primer and polyester and sand my face off. I highly doubt I’ll be ready for finish paint next weekend. Maybe another coat of polyester then another week of sanding.

    6181B941-3302-46DB-98F4-B75D43DE2274.jpg

    064211D0-3647-4916-B67C-369180C5ECAF.jpg

    AFB6D854-51BD-46F2-AEF1-495E7D8A3DE3.jpg

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    66003BD0-EF40-4AC7-8F18-E408F2ECD356.jpg

    A7F9CD74-2C45-40D8-9514-7F6275EC16AE.jpg

    Fooooood and bed....

    Followed by a dog walk and another half day of sand castles made of sand. Maybe I get the Hendrix going tomorrow to set the mood.

    One last thing. This thing had Four layers of crap on it. First layer is the green paint and it comes right off. Then a white layer. Then a grey purple layer that’s a nightmare to blast through then another white layer but only in the deep voids that’s also a bear to get off. I suspect this last white layer is filler. It took so long as each layer has to be worked through on its own. I could work through all layers at once but it was much much slower to do so. Holly hell is all I can say.
    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 04-13-2019 at 9:08 PM.

  8. #833
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    They make a product called “tear-offs” for the clear shields. Essentially it is another, much thinner clear film with tape backing that is a sacrificial cover for the face shield. It gets mucked up, you tear it off, and stick a new one on.
    Auto body supply houses carry them.
    Actually, the clear face piece on many of the masks used to be replaceable as well. You might want to investigate.
    Those masks ain’t cheap, at around $200.00 a pop!
    Last edited by peter gagliardi; 04-13-2019 at 9:05 PM.

  9. #834
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    Yeah I know,

    I think the mask came with one. It’s in my toolbox. Good place for it right. I’m praying there was one already on it it. I doubt it

    Quote Originally Posted by peter gagliardi View Post
    They make a product called “tear-offs” for the clear shields. Essentially it is another, much thinner clear film with tape backing that is a sacrificial cover for the face shield. It gets mucked up, you tear it off, and stick a new one on.
    Auto body supply houses carry them.

  10. #835
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    Yeah I know,

    I think the mask came with one. Itís in my toolbox. Good place for it right. Iím praying there was one already on it it. I doubt it
    Novus makes a plastic polishing compound that I have used with good results (in the case of sandblasting you might need to start with some wet/dry sanding first).

    7.5 hrs of blasting wears me out just thinking about it.

  11. #836
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    Carl thanks I’ll look into that.

    I actually need to polish all the black plastic knobs sommaybe that will also work for them.

    If you can believe it I did another four hours of blasting today. With fresh eyes the inside had more rust than I could see last night with the sun going down, a mask I couldn’t see through and terrible shop lights. Right now I have one 1.5 hr blasting session last weekend, 7.5 hrs yesterday and 4 hrs today. It hard to believe I spent 13 hrs sand blasting the base and top to be perfectly honest. I never would had guessed it would take so long.

    1ED58BAA-89EF-4768-A8AC-F98867A5B737.jpg

    64369B67-D6E1-493F-B139-E47DB01384DC.jpg

    A couple pictures to give some perspective as to what kinda task I have ahead of me to get a perfect car finish. All the rest of the the cast parts were much the same. I’d say I’ll be lucky to be painting this next weekend. Probably 40hrs of work to get this r4ady for sealer and finish paint. Blasting all the paint and filler off reveals all the grinder marks used at the factory to smooth the castsmin preparation for paint and or body work.

    05BF73F8-482B-4356-8621-958B55970329.jpg


    6FAD80E2-04CE-4740-9E34-E4667C893FA4.jpg


    I brought the two pieces up to our fourth floor shop as the first fooor has cement floors and is generally a bit damp. The last thing I want is any kind of rust to regrow. Plus i need to wire wheel all the machined surfaces tape them, scrub at a couple spots with a wire wheel with some pitted in rust I missed on the edge of the top and then hit the whole thing with rust inhibitor. Hopefully by days end tomorrow I’ll have all that work done. Tuesday/Wednesday I can get to rough filler work. If I’m lucky I can sneak into the spray booth Thursday night after work to shoot the primer and polyester. Then you know I’m sure it’s a day of work to just block the polyester flat then more filler, sand filler another coat of polyester and hopefully block it flat one last time and paint it. Sounds so easy but I bet I miss those days/dates/ deadlines by at least a week.

    6FAD80E2-04CE-4740-9E34-E4667C893FA4.jpg

  12. #837
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    16 hrs today.....

    Started the day by taking a wire wheel to all the machined surfaces. I then blew everything down with compressed air and washed it all with prepsall.

    At about 4:30mimstarted masking off all the machined areas. By 9:30 I was heading home.

    I think I might be crazy attempting to do such a thourough restoration in such a short time. I’m all reality I can easily see this taking those whom couldn’t not devote the amount of time I can devote upwards of a year as Darcy originally said.

    Anyways, makes photo.

    F1D4B6CB-4C39-4DEE-A64E-F0DD4E485EFE.jpg

    8F388526-344C-4B34-913A-EDC418B31EC7.jpg

    Primed photos, look at what I have to contend with. This is not gonna be body work but like sculpting.

    FAC871DE-8C69-4941-A471-053648599277.jpg

    What a mess, I hate Martin right now..

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    Polyester, not sure you can tell the difference, I couldn’t enough to keep putting coats on. Looks like I’ll be going through a good gallon of evercoat rage gold.

    01C0E330-A8E3-481A-95A9-03B49B530EE5.jpg

    I did get the underside of the top done. This is great news as I can flip it back over now. I left the edge unpainted for now not knowing if I was gonna further screw with the top.

    358C99F6-30E7-4BFE-A0AC-2279EE1D5099.jpg

    That’s it. Time for a few cookies and then I’m gonna fall on my face.

  13. #838
    Last big bandsaws I stripped, took almost 2 gallons of filler each so I could get it all smoothed out. Never going to get them flat, smooth is what I was after.

  14. #839
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    Castings are never perfect, I'm sure the base product is very excellent from Martin all things considered.

    Just a heads up, but make sure this machine is completely free of sand blasting material. We had an air gun we used to blast our blind holes, then we would also chase down any oil lines or whatever else that could potentially hold some grit.

    It's a worthy concern especially in any areas which will hold lubricants, as lubricants embedded with grit become abrasives
    Last edited by Brian Holcombe; 04-16-2019 at 4:01 PM.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  15. #840
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    Patrick, Brian again makes a very good point.

    We glass bead blasted the 69 Camaro and I spent days - literally DAYS - with a bottle brush, a tooth brush, an air hose, vacuum, air hose again, vacuum, brush, air hose the same crevices and crannies . . . . and spun the rotisserie so many times I lost count . . . and we still find some granules . . . . . NEVER AGAIN will I bead blast a car. Next one I will suck it up and pay to have it dipped.

    With over 50,000 views, it seems I am not alone in my admiration of your work. Best, Patrick

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