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Thread: Vintage Martin T75 restoration

  1. #661
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Inkerman, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,389
    Hi Joe,
    I was just lucky that i noticed the slots and had the shims, just once in a while stuff works out. I did stand off to the side when i was pressing it though. haha. there is a lot of pressure on that spring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Calhoon View Post
    Mark, you made that look easy! I really struggled with that one on the T23. Filing this away for future use.
    Going back in we jury rigged a fixture and pressed it down with the fork lift. It was scary and for a while thought we were going to loose the farm or injure someone.

  2. #662
    Patrick, I sent you an email about your shaper situation.

  3. #663
    Thanks for the help everyone.

    Big day today, just getting home.

    Gotta eat dinner then some good pictures.

    Every step of the way with this I can t help but think to myself over and over and over again “I LOVE THIS FREAKING SAW”.....

    I’m tired and after today realize I have a long road to hoe yet. All the green paint is deceptive. Still soooooooo much to do..

  4. #664
    Mark I got the spring out.

    I was scared to say the least.

    I will 100% use your trick when putting the machine back together. That’s a hint as to what I did today.

    I can’t believe how big that dam spring is. Had I known I may have left well enough alone lol..

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hennebury View Post
    Patrick the spring is quite easy to deal with; If you have the right stuff. If you look at the tube that the spring is in you will see an angled slot on each side of the tube at the bottom; When you compress the spring you need to slide in a plate as in the photo the plate locks the spring, and holds it, so you can handle it without any problem. You can put the shim in while the spring is in the saw, and when you want to put it back you can compress the spring on a press and put the shim in.once you put the spring/tube back into the saw, and put a bit of compression on the spring, by tilting the blade, you can then easily remove the plate. The plates that i have are shim plates in various thicknesses, i believe that i used a 0.050" shim.


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  5. #665
    Martin,

    I did get your email. Thanks to both yourself and Dave. It’s great the amount of help people are willing to offer in this community.

    Honestly the shaper is sitting. We have a kitchen we have to finish ASAP and then I’ll get to it. I also talked to our local Scm dealer and service tech and somehow our brand new planer lost its calibration and I needed to figure out what the hell to do about that as the instruction manual offers zero insight.

    So you I know when I’m done with this project and the million random stupid punch list things that every cabinet shop I’m sure ends up with constantly I’ll be taking at least a day to figure out both machines.

    From what I understand out early 80’s machine had a lock nut on the bottom of the quill that is recessed and will require a pin spanner with a long reach.

    From what I understand I’ll probably have to make this tool. I do t own a welder but you know I’m startung to think if I’m gonna keep restoring and or maimting machinery I probably should have one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Wasner View Post
    Patrick, I sent you an email about your shaper situation.

  6. #666
    Ok so I’ll just let the pictures do the talking..

    Top coming off this time for real. I didn’t get pictures of this way up in the air because I was tending to this task by myself. Yet again I was borrowing the fork lift from my uncle and fighting the clock knowing fill well a delivery could come anytime and a truck need to be unloaded. Funny enough a truck did arrive and it was a plywood order for my shop not his.

    I can tell you how scary this was. Between the giant spring and the idea and impending doom of bending something and or the whole thing slipping out of the straps. I just love crap like that though, anything where my ass is on the line or something I’m really invested in is at risk of failure for some reason always gets me motivated and interested. You know it’s like when your spend days building something and one wrong pair with the chisel and your to date perfect streak comes to a complete halt and you loose interest because now your project is not perfect.

    DFEADBA1-9135-47AF-BFAD-A6C9C2EC6164.jpg

    Being I had to use th fork truck to upload a delivery and I could tell my uncle was like why did you not do this after hours the top with the trunion still attached got set down on a couple saw horses and a rolling cart. I used the engine lift and straps just Incase the saw horse and cart gave way cuz I didn’t trust them a bit.

    FA85205C-7D8C-422B-B42A-FC1A4A9FEC31.jpg

    This could gone so bad as I put the cast table and trunion down on the saw horses and cart without the engine lift. Seeing just how stupid my planning and design making was I panicked to borrrow The engine lift form another tenant.

    FAB5DE22-C0BE-4184-8ADB-A1D4D7315071.jpg

    That was all before 8:30. I spent my whole day thinking about how the hell I was gonna get the trunion off the cast table by myself. I could had built a table under it to support it then lifted the cast table off somdrht and so on but that was gonna take way to long.

    I recruited help for five minutes and two of us slipped the trunion off the two large half moons. It was not easy, well it was not light and the cast table kept swinging around making it a real pita. But actually it was really easy. I’m still working out in my head how I’ll put the machine back together. Whe. I do put it back together I won’t have a fork lift. I can have the help of a engine lift though.

    Cast iron top safely on a cart and in need of much elbow grease. Mark I want to know how you got such a consistent sheen on our cast tables and the half moon trunion. At least it pictures it looks like freshly machined parts free of any scratch pattern.

    C3CC0121-3F56-418A-A7D5-C6F772D92137.jpg

    The trunion off the cast table and in pieces. So much lodged in dust it was amazing the machine worked.

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    The base blown down and vacuumed out. I found like zero rust in the machine so far. This is not the case on the inside of the base. I’m not sure how I’m gonna kill it. I think the weather has improved enough I may tent the base outside and sandblast it. I’m so sick of the kneedle scaler and dai grinder anyway.

    56C4A726-69EC-4B4B-A47D-B4595AF75E29.jpg

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    Everything safe and tucked in for the night. I can’t tell you how happy I a, to have the machine fully disassembled and nothing broken, like nothing naddah zip zero zilch.

    Now I got aget back to sanding. My hands and wrist are still sore hence part of my motivation to tear down the base. Plus I’m jsut sick of sandingm as satisfying as see the pieces in paint is and as much as I just want the parts I have prepped thus far painted and behind me I’m very sick of sanding. The sanding to get the finishnim after is rediculous. Much like a piece of fine furniture but like a a whole living room dinning set with a zillion little pieces.

    Back to sanding 6am tomorrow so I can finish painting this weekend. Then I’ll finish up the motor and t4ar into all these parts. I’ll probably save the base for last as I’m oretty excited to see the base in paint and if I do it first I might not want to deal with the little stupid annoying stuff.

  7. #667
    66C58D3F-E5C6-4A74-9B62-5ED548B96E0D.jpg


    The tucked in photo because it wouldn’t fit.

    Man it looks like I have soooooooo much to do when I put all the pieces together like this. This machine has so many freaking pieces it’s crazy. I’d have like 3-4mmore carts full of the painted stuff was in this picture. That doesn’t take into account my toolbox full of parts or all the stuff off at the plater.

    I would never discourage someone from doing this, nor to I regret doing this as I’m having a blast but man it is way more than a ton of work. Honestly other than building a house I have never done something so involved and all in time consuming. It’s takes serious motivation and a commitment to attention on a daily basis for this to get done in any kind of timely fashion. Any other way and o can see the machine never being out back together and that would be a pathetic shame.
    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 03-19-2019 at 10:35 PM.

  8. #668
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    MA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post

    Man it looks like I have soooooooo much to do when I put all the pieces together like this. This machine has so many freaking pieces it’s crazy. I’d have like 3-4mmore carts full of the painted stuff was in this picture. That doesn’t take into account my toolbox full of parts or all the stuff off at the plater.

    I would never discourage someone from doing this, nor to I regret doing this as I’m having a blast but man it is way more than a ton of work. Honestly other than building a house I have never done something so involved and all in time consuming. It’s takes serious motivation and a commitment to attention on a daily basis for this to get done in any kind of timely fashion. Any other way and o can see the machine never being out back together and that would be a pathetic shame.
    I do some restoration of old tractors. It is somewhat similar. The first one I did came apart to every nut and bolt and clip for detailing, sandblasting/stripping to metal/prep, restoring, painting or powder coating. Other ones I have done more like the factory where they put it all together and blow paint on everything. Other times I have simply sanded the original paint and feathered it out - as long as no flaking. Choices, but you are going to really like the finished saw and it looks to me like will fit your personality and style beautifully. Am quite certain you will get a lot of compliments and it will become a signature piece.

    Expect some dings as it goes back together. One trick is not to tear the perfect paint when replacing the bolts and tightening. As they torque down they can rip the paint around the bolt head. Which is in part why some paint after assembly. For some of these I add a flat washer underneath (sometimes stainless).just to prevent paint damage, but it does mean the threads have slightly less engagement. Inevitably I always get a ding or scratch during reassembly so good luck with it!

    Thanks for all the pics!

    Beautiful work and fun to watch.

  9. #669
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
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    Totally agree with Carl, flat washers save your paint. One thing I have found very odd about machinery is that there are very few washers. In engine building they were mandatory, you needed a clean surface under the head of the bolt to act as bearing and allow the bolt to reach the proper level of stretch at a given torque. Too much friction under the head gives you a false reading.

    Just don’t buy cheap washers, nice heavy small OD washers look neat.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  10. #670
    Carl

    I have given much thought to how to tend to the bolts and nuts.

    I was gonna nickle plate then all but I thought that would look terrible as there are so many exposed on the outside of the machine.

    At this point I'm gonna spray all the mute and bolts and as suggeted use either brass washers or paint them all green also.

    The good news is the paint in spraying can be tolled so I should be able to touch them up and the paint should self level nice.

    The other option is staineless bolts and then polish but that will look a lot like nickle and I thing look overdone..

  11. #671
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Inkerman, Ontario, Canada
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    Patrick.....The rabbit hole is beyond deep.... there is no saving you.

    Table tops... hmm where to begin?

    With a question maybe; Do you want a clean shiny top or a flat top?

  12. #672
    Flat and shiny

    You know flat is very important to me as I'll set this machine up to work metal tolerances.

    But you know I don't want to loose the seeet old ribs on the original tables.

    Even my brand new t54 tables don't come close.

    Far better than anything else and very very nice still but you can almost feel like tiny tiny air pockets or something in them and even though they are ribbed it's not as pronounced and they are not close to as smooth.

    I like rabbit holes.

    What's up Doc...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hennebury View Post
    Patrick.....The rabbit hole is beyond deep.... there is no saving you.

    Table tops... hmm where to begin?

    With a question maybe; Do you want a clean shiny top or a flat top?

  13. #673
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    I would go with stainless over nickel plate, but I think just block oxide is best, IMO.

    I used these when racing cars, never had a bolt related failure.

    https://arp-bolts.com

    Catalog page 115 starts metric bulk fasteners.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  14. #674
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Inkerman, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,389
    Shiny is no big deal; whatever you have at hand, belt sander, orbital sander, scotchbrite pads; I like to lap them with waterstones soaked in paintthinners. Then buff with scotchbrite, then wipe with boiled linseed oil and turps to seal. then you can wax and buff.

    FLAT.... Flat is a universe unto itself, a rabbit hole so deep there is no end, the deeper you go the smaller you get, until you walk among the atoms.

    There are choices to be made; a commitment required, a sacrifice demanded, one that is total and that supersedes all others, ( including your most beloved original ribs.)

    Are you ready?

    First. what level of insanity do you wish to descend?
    Second. what will you settle for?

    First you need to check it, if is not up to snuff, You can of have yourtable sent out and planned just like the original (With ribs) ground or scraped ( electric or hand scraped). Oryou can do it yourself.


    A good reference surface is critical for checking.

    Ideally you will require a temperature controlled clean-room with a Laboratory Grade AA granite surface plate.
    Next down is a regular workshop with a Inspection A grade granite surface plate.
    Or a Tool-room grade B
    Then of course you need to have it calibrated and verified.
    Then you can use it as your reference surface.

    You can ink the and hand scrape the top flat to high tolerance yourself.
    You can, check and scrape in your straightedges for checking machine surfaces and ways etc.
    Basically you need five points of reference for a flat table top surface, the four corners and the centre; this you can check with a straightedge. Then you need all points in between to fall in line. the more points the better surface.

    I am hoping to get into handscraping this year. I have purchased a couple of surface plates and camelback straightedges.

    In the meantime, you can make improvements with minimal expense if you have to.
    One of my Robinson sliders was warped over 0.020" on the sliding table. so i used a disc grinder. I lapped it on the Reasonable flat main table ( with a bit of lapping paste) to highlight the high spots, then ground them, the kept repeating.
    I got it to less than 0.002" then trued up the tracks on the underside. Not perfect, but better than it was.
    When i get chance to work on this machine again, it will be inked and scraped in on the surface plate.

    ( meet you at the bottom)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    Flat and shiny

    You know flat is very important to me as I'll set this machine up to work metal tolerances.

    But you know I don't want to loose the seeet old ribs on the original tables.

    Even my brand new t54 tables don't come close.

    Far better than anything else and very very nice still but you can almost feel like tiny tiny air pockets or something in them and even though they are ribbed it's not as pronounced and they are not close to as smooth.

    I like rabbit holes.

    What's up Doc...

  15. #675
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    2,253
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    Carl

    I have given much thought to how to tend to the bolts and nuts.

    I was gonna nickle plate then all but I thought that would look terrible as there are so many exposed on the outside of the machine.

    At this point I'm gonna spray all the mute and bolts and as suggeted use either brass washers or paint them all green also.

    The good news is the paint in spraying can be tolled so I should be able to touch them up and the paint should self level nice.

    The other option is staineless bolts and then polish but that will look a lot like nickle and I thing look overdone..
    Not surprised you have thought about this.

    I would NOT use stainless. Although certain grades of stainless (304/316 etc) do not rust (although 18-8 and some others do which often is what bolts are made of) - stainless is not as strong as carbon steel/hardened bolts. Sometimes they are ok for just holding stuff together and can look nice, but my experience has been that I often regret using them over time when one breaks or loosens because it stretches or does not have the strength of grade -3, -5, -8 hardened bolts.

    Good old fashioned zinc looks great imo.

    Another option is blasting them and powder coating the heads. You can make a rack for the oven to spray just the heads and put various powder coat textures/finishes. Can really create some sexy looks. But easy to look overdone as you say.

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