Vintage Martin T75 restoration

[Patrick Walsh]

I’ll give Martin a call later in the week. Sadly I’m back in the field again finishing a instal.

Thanks for the heads up.

My opinion is paint is every bit as demanding as stain work. I find it easier sometimes to fix a stain grade oops, than a paint grade one. Paint grade generally your dealing with a very uniform surface so any little blip shows up. Stain grade you generally have grain and sometimes figure to work with which can hide a bit more.

As for bearings... Martin supplied FAG for my T-21. I would call them first to check on prices. I think they may have changed their systems since I bought mine, but at the time they have a system where they charged you based on what their cost was when they bought the bearings. So for mine which were sitting on their shelf for a few years, they were significantly cheaper than anyone else, and I mean a few hundred $.

good luck,
JeffD

[Martin Wasner]

I think my finisher uses a tinted primer as the color and shoots clear over it. Most things are super easy for him to repair in the field when necessary.

I don't know what he's using for a product. I know he recently changed his process a bit. I'm pretty sure he was using a conversion varnish for the base and top coating with a catalyzed lacquer.

[Patrick Walsh]

Hmm that sounds interesting I’d love to know more.

I can just hear our finisher right now suggesting such a approach. It would be something like”you guys are crazy, you make everything a nightmare” or “ok but it’s gonna cost you a fortune. And I can’t be responsible for how it turns out cuz I have never done it before”.

Is it just our finisher or do they all have major attitude?

I think my finisher uses a tinted primer as the color and shoots clear over it. Most things are super easy for him to repair in the field when necessary.

I don't know what he's using for a product. I know he recently changed his process a bit. I'm pretty sure he was using a conversion varnish for the base and top coating with a catalyzed lacquer.

[peter gagliardi]

The general rule is harder finish on bottom, softer on top. Not the other way around.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that solid colors spray applied are considerably more work than clear finishes.
The vast majority of our work is in clear finishes.
We strongly discourage stain or solid color when we can.
People are paying for custom woodwork, and picking a reasonably close color and grain wood to a picture they may have seen is typically a small percentage of the overall cost.
Stains and colors are a pain in the neck to TRY to repair perfectly. Clears, generally are pretty forgiving, excepting some age and light related darkening or lightening.
We are working a kitchen job currently in solid White uppers and Grey lowers. We do so few, we forget the price factor multiplier, thus we are going to be tight on this job.
We are contemplating letting the stain and solid jobs go to someone else, and HAPPILY!
My newish black boots are now white, along with a newer pair of dark brown Carrhart workpants.
Clear work is fussy in different ways than solid or stain.

It would be great if you could source the bearings from Martin, AND you got a good deal on them!

[Patrick Walsh]

Peter maybe my reading comprehension is lacking,

Are you saying you try to and are considering turning down anything that is not stain grade sans stain.

I agree in theory but very few can be talked into having anything other than exactly what they see in some magazine or some decorator or architect tells them they want.

The architect we do like 70% of our work for always wants stain on everything as to if nothing else “hope” everything changes together with regard to uv light.

For instance cherry he just lived to stain cherry. I keep telling him and my boss I can give him the same look with oil and a clear and that with time it will only look better and better. But you know it’s just never gonna happen, the guy has stain in his head as most do and moss boss could care less so long as he can pay us all and keep the doors open. Good boss

Same in walnut both this guy and my boss sware by this one color of stain on walnut as it negates sapwood and gives you the look of only the most perefect walnut boards. It’s nice I admit but man so isn’t walnut with a bit of oil...

I say pic better boards, use oil and clear, or oil and whatever and love the wood species for the species you have chosen.

You know the average cleient of say20-50 living in a 3.5-5 million dollar home just doesn’t seem to care. As long as it’s what all their friends want then it’s what they want also. Most will move another 2-5 more times in their lives and really I dont think long term. They could care less about tomorrow as apposed to just having to have exactly what they want when they want. That is till it’s done and they just have to have the next thing.

I guess you have clients I have always dreamed of having. People wanting true quality with at least some conception and respect for what it is they want the materials and the person making it.

The general rule is harder finish on bottom, softer on top. Not the other way around.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that solid colors spray applied are considerably more work than clear finishes.
The vast majority of our work is in clear finishes.
We strongly discourage stain or solid color when we can.
People are paying for custom woodwork, and picking a reasonably close color and grain wood to a picture they may have seen is typically a small percentage of the overall cost.
Stains and colors are a pain in the neck to TRY to repair perfectly. Clears, generally are pretty forgiving, excepting some age and light related darkening or lightening.
We are working a kitchen job currently in solid White uppers and Grey lowers. We do so few, we forget the price factor multiplier, thus we are going to be tight on this job.
We are contemplating letting the stain and solid jobs go to someone else, and HAPPILY!
My newish black boots are now white, along with a newer pair of dark brown Carrhart workpants.
Clear work is fussy in different ways than solid or stain.

It would be great if you could source the bearings from Martin, AND you got a good deal on them!

[Phil Mueller]

I have no experince in commercial/professional custom woodworking, but I’ll just say that my handful of years as a hobbyist has me agreeing 110%. I just don’t stain anything anymore. As you said Patrick, pick the right wood in the first place and revel in it’s inherent beauty. An oil finish or shellac is all I do anymore.

[bill epstein]

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Sorry, thought it was Martin D​ 75

[Patrick Walsh]

You know in my Martin googling I come across many Martin guitars.

High my personal build list after this saw and my house are done is a stringed instrument.

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Sorry, thought it was Martin D​ 75

[John Sincerbeaux]

You know in my Martin googling I come across many Martin guitars.

High my personal build list after this saw and my house are done is a stringed instrument.

Certainly can’t lose with Martin machines or Martin guitars!

[Patrick Walsh]

Well I have been mia for a few days but that does not mean I haven’t been plugging away. Work has just had me back and forth, up and down, and all around. It’s driving me a bit nuts as I’m a creature of habit and I much prefer routine in my work than getting to do something new each and everyday.

Anyway I have t been doing nothing just not taking so many pictures or updating. Mostly I have been sanding polyester to 400 grit. Not very exciting but oddly satisfying considering sanding is like my least favorite thing in the world right behind installing cabinetry and or any kind of site work.

Today I made a trip to the autobody supply store and parted with way to much freaking money. If you think gallon of Ben Moore Auro or Advantech is expensive you have no freaking idea.

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I also got a sweet deal on this next to new sweet ass gun.

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Then I got to work. I could hardly wait to see what the fruits of my labor would or would not reward me with. I fully expected elation or complete devastation. In the end I got something righ in the middle. I’m a pretty black and white guy, the middle is really a pretty uneasy place for me. I much prefer to feel either good or bad about something as at least you know how you feel. Being in the middle and being able to go this way or that I just find annoying.

Ultimately my issue was when shooting my sealer coat I was getting a bit of particulate in my paint. The gun and product lay right down like child’s play. I nearly had a temper tantrum after shooting my first piece. I determined that I’m gonna have to spend $400 to replace the intake and outake filters on the spray booth as they are a mess and pretty much clogged completely shut restricting airflow. The filters to the air supple also have not been replaced since 2016 and the booth is used daily. So I’m pretty thrilled I have particulate in my paint and I gotta spend $600 on a spray booth that is not mine on filters I’ll use for this one project and that everyone else in the building will be using and making dirty again probably long before I’m done with my project.

Anyway back to paint, I could also see my 400 grit scratch pattern like a magnifying glass straight through my sealer coat. Again I almost had a heart attack. At this point I was faced with a decision. I really wanted to just stop painting and call it a day till I got the booth cleaned up properly. But the problem was this, I had about $200 of sealer and top coat mixed up and ready to spray. Had I heeded to the particulate and scratch pattern it would had meant throwing $200 of paint in the trash.

I decided worst case the top coat can be re coated righ atop itself after sanding to 400 grit. This paint can be layered as many time as one wants to whatever mil. It seemed to make sense that if I had to I’d sand everything one more time to 400 grit and spray everything with yet another top coat after the booth was in good working order again that it wasn’t the end of the world. It is however a huge disappointment and really really annoying.

It was a hard decision, keep spraying knowing I was getting just enough particulate in my work to piss me off enough whip my new $1200 spray gun across the booth or stop and throw $200 in the trash.

I kept going and to be honest things got better. Not perfect but better. I fully expect I’ll be buffing all these parts to 400 when dry and shooting them again. Sure it’s a saw and yes it’s gonna get destroyed quickly under use but till then this is about perfection to me. The imron or topcoat easily cobber the 400 grit scratch pattern as I was told it would. I wish someone would had told me the the sealer would not cover the scratch pattern as I almost did not shoot my top coat and instead almost left everything in just sealer to re sand to like 800 and the. Seal and top coat again. I woulda been pisssed if I did all that to find out later “as I did” the imron would cover a 400 grit scratch pattern.

Oh the color, that’s the color. I hope people like it. I had a piece from the catacombs of the machine hidden from uv light use and abuse color matched. I decided to go high gloss. The other option in this paint was a semi gloss. The semi believe it or not was gonna be next to impossible to repair when scratched. This high gloss can be buffed out just like a car. And to be honest the machine had a gloss on it originally and I rather like this high gloss in person. It’s shinny as all get out, it’d just more satisfying to spray this stuff for me. I dint know what but it is. It sure is alotmhardermto get a good result than if I went with a low gloss option. As much as I bitch I like the challenge.

Pictures and more painting to come Sunday. Tomorrow I take the day off.

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[Patrick Walsh]

More pictures of green paint..

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All done and cleaned up for another day. I was in the booth till 11.30 tonight.

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I’d say I can have all the pieces I have prepped and primed shot green by end of day Sunday. That’s gonna largely depend on how I feel about the work tomorrow morning after I unload the spray booth. If I don’t like what I see I’ll wait till I replace all the various filters on the booth. I really hope I don’t have to go to that extreme as this whole thing is crazy expensive but you know if I’m not happy with the work then at least for me it’s not worth doing at all.

[Brian Holcombe]

Looks fantastic, color and all. Your efforts are definetly paying off.

[Mark Hennebury]

Great job, Patrick. Nice looking spray gun.

[Tom M King]

Color is perfect! I would have done the gloss too. I've never had one of those guns in my hand. There is a hobbyist hot rod builder here that has a downdraft booth, full Sata setup, and lets me play with his toys since I've done him a lot of favors with my tractors, and metal working tools, and he enjoys my appreciation for what he does for fun. He has mostly one of each, but not one of that gun.

[Patrick Walsh]

Glad you approve Brian, really I’m serious not snide.

So I’m gonna make a case for my green match on account of I assume most will say it’s much more neon/lime than the original. I’m also gonna make a case for the high gloss I chose. Again non of it matters but that I like it but you know my intention is to restore not alter the machine.

I will trick the machine out down the road but that some time off and will only he bolt in items that can easily come off. Namely a modern crosscut fence from Martin, a pair of Macs air clamps, and that’s about it.

Anyway bellow is a link from Joe when he was working on his t21. There is a picture of a old Martin machine in the Martin museum. You will notice the high gloss paint. You will also notice it’s not even close to the green I chose. To this I say refer to the next couple links I provide. I suspect different machines of different vintage “year” may have used different batches of paint. I know with my brand t54 jointer next to my bosses 2002 t73 sliding saw the blue is 100% a few shades/tones different. Imop the new color is way better.

https://forum.canadianwoodworking.co...isition/page23

Then you have these photos of old Martin t75 of simular vintage as my machine. Could they have been painted at some point “sure” but who knows really. All one can really do is guess the best they can. I don’t think my saw was ever re painted and this color is a exact match to what was found on the machine. I can provide more links to t75 with a simular green tomthe color I have had matched. I can also find photos of a number of machines at in joes link where the green is much more subdued.

http://www.limzmachinery.com/Panel-S...-Machinery-296

Again in the end it just matters I like it. But you know I’ll only like it if it’s actually historically reverent at this point as that’s what I’m going for. If I was going for something different I’d be happy with that.

True story the machine in the 11th hour almost ended up the green bellow. It woulda been rediculous but like I said I’m a black and white kinda guy and I would had really enjoyed working with the paint and honestly I’d dint think I would have tired of the color choice long term. I think it would had been a fun addition to my shop and you know the lover of everything phycodelic woulda had quite a bit of fun with the machine.


https://www.hdforums.com/forum/dyna-...l#&gid=1&pid=1