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Thread: Vintage Martin T75 restoration

  1. #1081
    Patrick, I must have missed it, but what did that base weigh?

    (and I am THOROUGHLY enjoying following this! Thank you for continuing to post updates!)

  2. #1082
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    You know Dan Iím not sure.

    I have read the whole saw weighs like 4500-5000 lbs built. But I dont know.

    I can say this, the base is clearly more heavy than my sawstop my Felder shaper maybe even my Felder combo. It feels as heavy on a pallet jack as a scmi 24Ē planer or a old 80ís t 160 shaper.

    Iíd say like 1000lbs plus but I also feel like I would be told otherwise if put on a scale.

    Moving the machine nothing like moving some of the above mentioned equipment. Itís a whole mother thing.

    So I suspect itís very heavy.

  3. #1083
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    Well got totally derailed today. We all have to balance life responsibilities with out wants. I wanted to get my shop put back together including getting the top box on the base box. But that did not happen. I have a teenage cousin of mine spending the weekend, the dog needed some attention, then somehow I ended up at my grandmothers house most of the afternoon.

    Now I gotta watch this football game as I can’t miss a Pat’s game.

    I recorded it so please nobody say boo about it.

    I did get the base box in. It was rather easy. I guess is should be as it has dam wheels. It is pretty heavy but nothing the saw.

    I ended up backing my van up to my porch. I have a ramp off one side for my injured dog. I pushed it out of my van, onto the porch, down the ramp screwing blocking as I do the ramp into my basement then skipped it across plywood almost 360% around my house. No pictures of any of that as I was in a huge rush having to get my cousin home and shop somewhat put back together including taking down the ramp and putting the door back up.

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    Had to shuffle everything around just to get the box to it’s intended home. Not to mention the ramp. I had the base sitting right in the path of the ramps way home. It’s like playing Tetris at this point in my shop. I’m totally ripping walls down and getting rid of the chop saw station long term. Being I want another shaper. My Martin jointer and Martin planer probably a sander gonna have to no choice.

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    Box kinda in place. I’m half considering putting it under that window. It will limit the outfeed to the right of my shop saw but with a slider I’ll never use the thing again anyway.

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    Taking the ramp apart. This thing is heavy and a pita to deal with taking the lumber off it and all but works like a charm, can handle some serious weight and a total life saver.

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    And uncanny enough at the very end a reminder and thankfulness for having a iron will.

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    Prior as said previous I really really thought this was a task I could not handle on my own. Left with no choice with limited time regarding weather here in New England I decided I had no choice but to just figure it out. Hopefully the weather holds for getting the cast iron top in next weekend. Again I have a idea how I’m gonna do it. But if you asked me today I’d tell you there is not way it scoundrel be done by myself. I have no help planned or available so I’m just gonna have to figure it out again.

    I also gotta run a couple machine related errands this week. The handwheel has to get to the plater. I have to get to the laser engraver about the rules. And I gotta get a package in the mail to our very own Brian Holcombe. Oh and I gotta get a chain hoist and large press to compress the spring for the trunion into the strut.

    If all goes well the weekend of thanksgiving I’ll get the trunion into the base and top on. Then Im largely at the mercy of the plater and my wallet as I’m gonna need some coin to deal with electrical work. I really want a phase perfect but that’s $4K another $3k for a new service and you know $7k is a big bite but one I’m gonna have to take I guess.

  4. #1084
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    What is that huge slab on picture #4? Bubinga?

  5. #1085
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    Yes.

    There are three there...

    All crazy figured. I may have pictures one is unreal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mreza Salav View Post
    What is that huge slab on picture #4? Bubinga?
    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 11-17-2019 at 8:22 PM.

  6. #1086
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    Whole saw is probably very close to 3500 lbs. Base is prolly between 800-1000 by itself.

  7. #1087
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    Last one I weighed was 3350.

  8. #1088
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    Not Macassar. Think like 4-5 times the price. Again this is another thing I just fell into.

    As for the martin well I can say this. Or rather my t75 vrs the t73 at work vrs our neighbors entry level brand new Scmi.

    First and foremost if I have learnt anything since I got into shop machines itís that simple rules the roost. Kinda like with off-road vehicles. Itís common knowledge in the off road world that the more ďstockĒ you can keep your truck the less breakdowns you will have and hence the further you can get into the middle of nowhere.

    The more buttons, the more features is just ore to go wrong. And chances are they are things that when they go wrong you canít just fix with replacement bearings a wheel puller and wrench. Old machines really have nothing to go wrong with them other than bearings so long as they are in good working order.

    Modern machines with electronic everything, even just blade height tilt and electric breaking are just all things waiting to become a issue as the machine ages. That Martin at work is a royal pita. The blade break trips pretty easy if you start and stop a lot. Itís a simple fix but a pain. Then the one off button has a connection in the main electrical box that gets dusty and needs cleaning at least ever few months. Sometimes it fires right up. Other times it will be down a day or two at a time.

    The electronic bevel of the blade get stuck also. When it does you get a error code and you have make love to the dam thing for a good half hour till it wants to work again.

    The Scmi in the shop next to me feels exactly like my Felder F700z shaper. Itís just feels like a toy. It feels like if you actually us it it wouldnít be long before you broke it. The sliding table feels so light I canít imagine ever throwing a 1Ē 4x8í piece of mdf up on it. Never mind the thing holding settings. But you know I know plenty of people that use those machines and they all say they hold settings like a champ and are problem free.

    Me though Iím over electronic anything. When I first started I had myself convinced digital everything was needed to get repeatable this and that and for ease of setup. Doing what I do, largely one off operations with the exception of cope and stick profiles there is little benefit of a modern electronic everything machine when Iíll never do that exact operation again. And if you canít setup a basic cope and stick on two machines in like three minutes without electronics weíll than you got much bigger problems.

    Honestly once this saw is setup ďcast table flatĒ sliding table set to it and cutting square I really canít see anything not to love. Once itís dialed in into nothing moves. Itís a slider, if it cuts square and runs when you press the on button your good.

    The only thing Iím concerned about is dust in the ball bearing ways of the sliding table. The newer machine has a far superior be it very similar solution.

    The question you are asking is honestly very personal. When I began Woodworking I wanted brand new everything with all the bells and and whistles. Now actually knowing how to build a thing or two Iíd take a well cared for and functioning machine from the early eighties or older anyway.
    Id say you did a pretty good job reviewing the machine and comparing to contemporary counterparts. For someone like me, i will never use numerous makes/eras of machines, and so i will ultimately take a stab in the dark on something and hope for the best.

    I know what you mean. I lay workpieces down on my Felder 700 outrigger like im putting a sleeping baby to rest. Im beyond gentle with that machine. However, like your colleagues attest to, in two years i havent recalibrated the crosscut fence, and i take the whole assembly off the saw every other month. Nothing against the Felder, but for my "forever" saw, I want something better, even if its a lot older.

    I very rarely see anything critiquing Martin, but your electronic gremlins are similar to stuff i recently read on woodweb. Saws not starting if its too cold. replacing many thousand dollar control boards a few times in a decade. Slightly alarming stuff for what is supposed to be the best of the best. Honestly, its all enough to scare me off a used saw with a bunch of options. especially, because a used <20 year old Martin saw isnt exactly cheap.

  9. #1089
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    Know o wouldn’t hesitate to purchase a 5-10 year old Martin from all known source. Even all electronic as much as I critique it. That is of course if I had and was willing to spend big money. At that point even if another $20kmi get stuck just buying brand new. The only thing I can say about Martin is they stock and produce parts for a full 25 years after they stop making the machine. That alone give me some security to a big purchase. I figure if you are willing to spend $40-80k on a machine it’s kinda like a car and you can’t not plan on maintenance. Honestly from those I know that are Martin nerds they have very few issues.

    The T73 at work was just to old in retrospect for a machine with anything electronic. Again though if I could choose I’d go even older early 70’s - ear;y 80’s and fully manual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Kane View Post
    Id say you did a pretty good job reviewing the machine and comparing to contemporary counterparts. For someone like me, i will never use numerous makes/eras of machines, and so i will ultimately take a stab in the dark on something and hope for the best.

    I know what you mean. I lay workpieces down on my Felder 700 outrigger like im putting a sleeping baby to rest. Im beyond gentle with that machine. However, like your colleagues attest to, in two years i havent recalibrated the crosscut fence, and i take the whole assembly off the saw every other month. Nothing against the Felder, but for my "forever" saw, I want something better, even if its a lot older.

    I very rarely see anything critiquing Martin, but your electronic gremlins are similar to stuff i recently read on woodweb. Saws not starting if its too cold. replacing many thousand dollar control boards a few times in a decade. Slightly alarming stuff for what is supposed to be the best of the best. Honestly, its all enough to scare me off a used saw with a bunch of options. especially, because a used <20 year old Martin saw isnt exactly cheap.

    If I was to purchase new it would be a T60C with digital crosscut and rip fence. Sure it’s pretty electronic but I’d bet you get a solid 20 years before you have a issue of you even do. But you know I went the vintage route as the slider did not seem a machine to me I need anything electronic.

    I will purchase a Martin planer at some point and even with what I say about electronics I really would hate going back to a planer without digital readout of thickness.

    Then a shaper you know if I can find a old one with the tenon table I’ll surely buy it as I also have zero need for electronics. If not I’ll buy a t12 and be bummed I spend so much money on a machine without a tilting spindle.



    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 11-18-2019 at 5:52 PM.

  10. #1090
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    Got the box on top of the box.

    My solution is pretty obvious and 100% self reliant. This is how I’ll get the trunion in the base and cast iron top on once the trunion is in.

    I’m gonna add a couple more I- hooks and I gotta do something about the round rod through the square brackets on the winch. It tips as is and doesn’t want to lift. Otherwise kinda piece of cake.

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    Time to unpack my mechanics tools and get to thinking about getting ready to build this saw.

    I was also able to start building a pallet for the cast iron top this morning. It meant a 4am start to my work day and the same tomorrow. Should be ready to tomorrow before I clock in for the work day and all set to move into the table into my shop Saturday.

    I have a pretty nifty plan as to how to move it all by myself. I think it will make you all laugh when you see the lengths I’ll go to to do this all on my own.
    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 11-18-2019 at 5:53 PM.

  11. #1091
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    Not very exciting pictures but they are proof I’m back at it steady with this project.

    The table will need to be cleaned again. Mid summer I found it sitting with the slightest pitted rust in the pores of the cast. I cleaned it quickly and waxed it. I’m a little worried but not really. It just means I’m gonna have to tape off the painted side and be a bit more careful.

    This thing is stupid heavy. I have a plan as said for moving it but you know this thing is just a beast.

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    Ready to go. I may try and get to home Friday. If so I can focus 100% on the putting my shop back together this weekend.

  12. #1092
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    Got a bit done today. I know I know I’m going ass backward. The trunnion should go in first. Being I still have to get the cast table into my shop I’m kinda in a shuffle this shuffle that limbo waiting to put everything back so I can get the saw under winch to assist in lifting the trunnion into the machine.

    There are so many odds and end still to attend to. I did my best due diligence all the way through to tend even to the smallest task and leave nothing not done. Regardless a few things here and there fell through the cracks. Not many but still a few and at this point these few things will limit my forward progress till they are tended to.

    Simple things like I need washers for the nuts as I can’t tighten them without risking marring the paint. Most of the bolts never had washers. But it is clear to me now the machine was painted after it was largely assembled as Mark Henberry has already figured out. I will last of another of these loose ends looking for direction and help sourcing the bits and pieces.

    For now I’ll just post some pictures. I’ll preface by saying there are some areas that are machined surface that I cleaned up fully and masked off when painting. What I did not realize was that some of these machines areas actually painted over after the machine was assembled. I’m kinda bummed but generally fine with it. What can I do now but be fine with it. Also the paint is very brittle like glass on edges that meet machined surfaces. I’m getting and gonna get some very small chips here and there. When I’m fully assembled and calibrated I’ll drop back, clean the machine and get out a touch up kit and artist brush.

    Put the brushes on the trunnion. These help in keeping just out of the saw and into the the dust chute.

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    Making some quick progress. Most of this stuff flying on. It will all need to be adjusted to get he machine to cut square. That chain coupled with the handle off the back of the machine actually moves both towers for and aft in relationship to the blade allowing for a dado blade. Something most sliders can’t do.

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    Just a nice shot. These pieces hanging of the front back and middle of the saw are for the outrigger arm. They allow the support table to be moved the full length of the machine.

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    A shot from the back. The hand wheel that controls the the sliding table moving in and out in relationship to the blade for dado.

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    My reflection in the rear door. No that’s not crap in the paint but dust and crap on the paint.

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  13. #1093
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    So glad I took the time to address each and ever detail of this machine down to the last tiny tiny part fully into consideration. It’s these little details that make me giddy like a kid watching the machine come back together. Pic bellow are the oil ports. The machine has oil lines all over it as all Martin sliders do even the newest ones. Lots of very practical smart design on Martins part. You know it’s good and it works as they have largely retained many of these choices on their machines to this day.

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    Shop is very full

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    This machine is just so sweet. And I have not even got to putting any of the really cool components on it.

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    I’m totally in love and this has totally been worth every bit of effort and every last penny. I think all said and done with a phase perfect, a new electrical service, the saw, and all the restoration costs I’ll be like $20K into this.

    I call that a deal for what I’m getting as for that amount I could had got a very low end Felder or SCMI and I woulda been disappointed forever wanting a high quality machine like this. It has been exhausting but I like to suffer so it’s suited me well.

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    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 11-20-2019 at 9:46 PM.

  14. #1094
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    Looks great, awesome seeing it come back together.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  15. #1095
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    Jul 2007
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    Inkerman, Ontario, Canada
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    Looks Great! incredible job, incredible amount of work that you have put in, but it sure looks worth it, it will be a pleasure to work on that machine every day you use it. I cant imagine a nicer way to spend a day.

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