Vintage Martin T75 restoration

[Patrick Walsh]

I was pretty sure it was not a improvement over your current machinery.

Then again what you do is a while nother world from what I do so what do I know.

Whatever the case I’d sure like to play around with that machine if nothing else.

Patrick,
No idea what steam punk is so don’t worry.
Its a small angular machine for window and door making. Tenoning shaft with saw, powered table and Festo style length fence. Profiling shaft with glass bead removal saw, large power feed and support arms for outside profiling frames.
Okoma was started by former Baurele employees and invented the first angle machines. Later put out of business when the patents ran out and Weinig and others started making that type machine.

This would not be an improvement over what I have but I think they are cool!

[Patrick Walsh]

Got it home.

Holy crap the truck I rented was a beast and totally a trip to drive. The first ten minutes behind the wheel in city traffic I was definitely thinking to myself “how do I get myself into this @#$* all the time”. By the end of the day I was flying around in it like a race car lol.

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You ask why rent such a bit truck to move a wee saw. Dock height bed, I was picking up and delivering to two locations with loading docks and it made loading and unloading a breeze. The truck did cost me nearly $500 to rent for the day so I am now $5K even into this machine. Probably way more than it is worth in all reality. When up and running like a top the machine will be worth way more than $5 to me so that’s the angle I choose to look at it from.

I did not spend any time really messing with my new baby as I ended up helping my boss move the old Altendorf out of the shop and onto it’s new owners trailer. I did take notice that this week saw by comparison in its size to our new but only T73 is very very very heavy. Wondering how and why I poked around a bit. The first thing I noticed was that the cast iron table on the main saw is is the thickness of maybe four Felder and or Scmi machines.

I’m pretty excited. Now I just gotta find the time to get a cord on it and make a few test cuts before I go bat #$@* crazy tearing into pieces.

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[peter gagliardi]

You are going to really enjoy that machine.
$500.00 IS pretty steep for a one day rental on that truck, but it’s done now.
Around here, that truck would run $120-150.00 a day.
Glad to see it found it’s new home.

[Patrick Walsh]

As you mentioned peter,

Cost of living is probably much higher near me where the wild ones roam vrs you were people are still civilized.

Ok so not $500 but pretty close with all considered. $320 with the $60 of insurance then 30 cents a mile over the 50 miles they give you, I did like a 150 miles, then $75 in gas.

And yes I agree I am gonna cherish this saw I would think till I probably fall over using it. The last thing the seller said me was “keep in touch, that saw has made a ton of really really beautiful work” he was talking about work he made with it. I could tell it was hard for him to see it go. The previous owner built custom yacht interiors out of Rhode Island and was also attached the machine from what I’m told. I guess he asked when he sold it to the guy I purchased it from that if he ever sold it to re contact him and give him first option. Not sure what happened there but?

I couldn’t help but think well now it’s gonna make a life’s worth of beautiful stuff for me. I did feel bad though

I’m excited to say the least. But man o man it’s gonna be a while before I am actually using it in my shop. I have so much personal work related to my home to tend to. I have a covered front porch staircase and walkway that I pulled apart late fall and is just re framed at this point. It needs to be decked and a thermal bluestone walk need be installed along with a set of natural stone stairs. Like giant rock slab type stairs. I also need to trim the whole thing out. Mostly non lattice lattice and column wraps but it’s still a project. Then I have ten passage doors to make for a master bedroom addition I started about three years ago. Once those are made I can trip it out, drop in the hardwood floors and paint the walls and stain all the trim and doors. If that’s not enough I replaced all my windows this past year also and began replacing all my exterior trim with Axek. I have to finish two sides of trim come spring then paint my whole house. When that’s done I could use a kitchen. However when the above is done I’ll probably sell and get the hell out of doge if I can find a good job in the sticks.

Sadly and as I knew when I purchased the machine a number of weeks ago one of the small metal rails the slider runs on that I was told to look for wear on has come loose. Per the instruction manual there is a specific adhesive used to attaché them in such a case they come loose. Sadly I’m going to have to tend to this before I do anything with the machine as I suspect I could damage something further if used the way it is today.

My intent is take the whole thing apart. However when I suggested. Taking the sliding carriage off the cast rail it rides on and a million loose ball bearings falling out of the races i kinda got cold feet imagining loosing god knows how many tiny bearings. Then there is the consideration if I don’t loose any how the hell I ever get it all back together if indeed they are loose and floating.

Who knows, maybe to re glue the track I don’t need to screw with the races and or bearings but I kinda doubt it. If I do have to cut a million of those little bastards free I think the first thing I’m gonna have to do is build a box I can disassemble the sliding table in as to catch and capture any bearings that may try and run away on me.

You are going to really enjoy that machine.
$500.00 IS pretty steep for a one day rental on that truck, but it’s done now.
Around here, that truck would run $120-150.00 a day.
Glad to see it found it’s new home.

[Kory Cassel]

Not sure if it will cause a problem collecting dust in a saw, but I've always held balls in place with heavy grease for re-assembly on other projects. Good luck not loosing any when you take it apart though.

[Brian Holcombe]

Looks great, that saw looks pretty clean to me. Given your workload and how nice that machine looks, It would be very tempting to me to just restore parts as time and enthusiasm allows while using it for a bit to get to know the machine. That will lighten the load when you go to do a full restore.

I suppose you would just need a paint match so that restored parts don’t appear glaringly out of place.

Before using it I would definetly clean, oil and grease. When I recieved the Felder FD250 every stuck part and tight assembly was from a lack of cleaning and oiling. Once it was cleaned and greased it all worked as intended. The maka was just slightly better than a basket case so that really needed the full battery, even the paint was mangled by people duct taping it for reasons unknown, painting on it, scared and damaged parts, etc. That machine had gone through hell.

Your saw looks very well kept after.

[Patrick Walsh]

Brian,

Per others suggestions I will indeed first getbthe machine up and running. At this point that means put the appropriate cord and cord end on it and plug it in. The sliding table does need immediate attention though so I will at the very least need to investigate that and proceed based on what I find.

I do agree for the age of the was it is in very very good shape. On the other hand there was duct tape on the machine funny you should mention. So you know pictures can be deceiving.

The only problem with just putting the saw into service as you suggested and resorting one piece at a time is regarding location. Right now it is at work. A build I work in and my Bess rents space. My uncle also rents space and has a shop in this building going back a few decades, the saw is Ina corner of his shop. It is here I have the opportunity and access to engine lifts, fork trucks and sand blasters along with the space to spread out and ability to make a mess with regard to dust so forth and so on that I would not have in my personal shop at home.

Pretty much once it’s home it will be what it is the way it is for eternity, well at least my lifetime. I’m pretty ocd and a workaholic so once I get into something I normally go no holds barred till it’s done. Ok so my house is not a very good example. The problem with the house is all the projects related cost huge money. If it was just the time I’d long since be done. I guess they would not have to cost so much if I was ok with half #*$@ stuff. But being my exposure to the Uber high end custom home market I just can bring myself to do anything to my own home that is not at least as nice as what I do for work. The sad fact is the average home price that I do work for is somewhere between 2-10 million dollars most like million so my reality and theirs really do not align although I still think I deserve nice stuff as I work very very hard. At least as hard as those I do work for.

[Joe Calhoon]

Glad you got it home safely Patrick! I was younger and dumber when I bought mine, hauled it home from Denver in a 1/2 ton truck with the headlights pointed to the sky!

The balls are fairly large as I recall. Dime size or larger. Luckily my old 75 is just a couple miles down the backroad from me and have first dubs on buying it back should he decide to sell. I like the newer version with the ballbearings in the fence though. Curious how the newer style cross fence works though as mine had the protractor like cross fence with large angle markings.

[Patrick Walsh]

Joe,

I have moved a few machines in such a fashion. I’m oretty self reliant and when I want something I tend to figure out a way to get what I want regardless of how far a reach or idiotic it is.

I almost took your 2 ton pickup suggestion to heart. I actually mentioned it to the seller and he thought I was nuts. The money is spent now and I’m glad I made it easy on myself. I was able to back the truck up to a loading dock on the receiving end throw down a dock plate and roll the machine onto the truck. Same on the my end unloading. I think combined it took me maybe five minutes to load and aunload. It made me really dream of having my own fooor level shop on my property. Being my house sits on a 5600 soft lot that is clearly not gonna happen.

It’s gonna be a real hoot getting this machine into my shop. I actually kinda get of kick out of doing rediculous stuff most would never ever consider. It’s a good feeling when your all done and you can stand back and digest how rediculous what you just did was bit that you pulled it off AGAIN lol. You know kinda like you and your half ton story. Where ther is a will there is a way.

Are you taking about the bearings in the sliding table or rip fence?

on

Glad you got it home safely Patrick! I was younger and dumber when I bought mine, hauled it home from Denver in a 1/2 ton truck with the headlights pointed to the sky!

The balls are fairly large as I recall. Dime size or larger. Luckily my old 75 is just a couple miles down the backroad from me and have first dubs on buying it back should he decide to sell. I like the newer version with the ballbearings in the fence though. Curious how the newer style cross fence works though as mine had the protractor like cross fence with large angle markings.

[Patrick Walsh]

Found about a hour to get more acquainted with the saw tonight. Only spent about a hour but I put everything back together and threw a straight edge on it just to get a very rough idea of what I have. I also have it a good blow down with compressed air. Holly smokes there is saw dust that is much like cement caked onto arts of the outside. Not so much in the inside thank go or any of the working parts.

Without getting to into it all I can say is this saw is gonna need some serious attention if I’m ever gonna be happy with it. First off the paint just flakes off with compressed air. I keep a really tidy shop and there is no way I’d be able to deal with little flakes of green paint all over place. Second thing I noticed is the sliding table is sitting a solid 64-32nd if not more above the cast table. I’m not quite sure how this is adjusted on this machine but again this is not 10 thousandths as a more modern machine is setup. I’m not sure that 10 thousandths is accurate either but you get my point.

I can see a couple areas where I’m gonna have to make some modern improvements to the machine. For instance the spindle that supports the outrigger table is a just a rod that sits atop a bolt on the bottom and indexes into the bottom of the outrigger table. I’m thinking bearings on either end are in order. Also a 8’ Sheet will fit in the machine but not a chance with a air clamp. I’m 100” gonna have to fabricate up some kind of extension to support a air clamp at least on the leading edge. If I do that I might as well put one on both the leading and trailing edge.

So far that’s all I really see but I really did not get into it. I’m sure I’m gonna keep finding things that will drive me nuts if not tended to. For instance the fence kind rubs the cast tables a]when you move it. I’m sure I can just adjust this out but if not I’ll have to fix that. My guess is the fence extrusion will also probably have to be ground flat again if it is out of square in relation to the cast table, has any twist or is not perfectly flat.

Anyway my hands are dirty and I’m already tired and I did nothing but put the outrigger table on it and wipe the top with some laquer thinner and a razor blade.

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The good news is I put a tape on the machine and I can easily fit it in my shop without any major amendments to my house. If I take it apart to restore it at work then transport it in pieces and reassemble in mu]y home shop moving it should be a piece of cake.

And oh boy everything is built so freaking beefy I think I’m in love. Well right now maybe not in love as it needs much attention. If I can work all the kind out though man o man I may sleep next to it a few nights like a little kid with a new toy.

[Patrick Walsh]

Joe,

As you suggested the bearings within the races are indeed about dime to marble sized. I was barely able to get a eye on them laying on the ground from bellow the machine but I think that is what I saw.

I’m gonna try and explain a noise that can be heard when sliding the table back and forth.

The noise makes one think something is loose within the sliding table and maybe trapped within the sliding table. It almost sounds like a rattling metal on metal noise. At first I thought this noise was one of the metal tracks the bearings and races travel on having come lose and in need of adhesive to hold it back down. At this point I no longer think that to be the case. I instead think I’m seeing a race that floats around between the top and bottom portion of the sliding table.

This loose piece seems trapped between the the upper portion of the sliding table or extrusion and the ribbed base that actually bolts to the machine base. The noise is kinda terrible and when combined with the muscle it takes to slide the table vrs a modern machine it makes me think something is not right.

Well it did make me think something was not right until I discovered the piece I thought was loose was actually a large race that housed the bearings. Now I’m not sure and half inclined to think this is just the way the machine was designed.

So the question is do the bearings sit in a large race maybe a foot or more long that travels around between the two extrusions with only a plate bolted on either end of the sliding table to keep the race and bearings from sliding out from between the table top and base and onto the floor. Or is this race indeed supposed to be secured to something and has worked itself free.

If that is just a bunch of jibberish and I lost you way back I understand. As soon as I find the time I’m gonna take the whole sliding table off and investigate a little at a time probabaly resulting in me taking the whole thing apart. I’m sure at this point it will be clear the culprit of the noise and what is going on.

Thank you,

[joe milana]

Patrick, Congrats on the Saw! Was that saw listed on E bay? I have one just like it, mine's Sn. 76260. Love the Felder fence! That's a nice upgrade. As far as the Sliding table goes, that doesn't sound good. Perhaps there is something foreign in there. Stranger things have happened... Yes, the bearings are captured in a linear race, more like ~3' long. You can see the edge of it from underneath. It's about 1/8" thick, and moves at 1/2 the speed of the carriage as you move it. I can help you adjust the slider, but it'll be easier if I grab some pictures. It's not real intuitive (as with many things German) but eventually makes sense. Bear with me.
I agree with your synopsis on the outrigger support post. Mine was a piece of conduit with aluminum duct tape to snug it up. I've since replaced it with a steel rod, and have been mulling ideas to incorporate bearings into it. I can't believe the saw has radial thrust bearings under the kipp levers, but then the outrigger post is sort of an afterthought. The Germans are kinda know for stuff like this though. I have my theories... ;-)
When you disassemble the sliding table portion, please document the process with pictures. I know it's a pain, but there is not much info out there on these. I read somewhere that the fixed races on the sliding table and base are reversible on some vintages, doubling their life. Wouldn't that be cool!

[Joe Calhoon]

Patrick,
It was almost 30 years ago when I had the sliding table off my T75. Cannot remember the details but it was not difficult.

My 75 had a simpler outrigger support than yours. Not near as sturdy as what’s on the T72 but sufficient for most tasks.

[Darcy Warner]

Patrick,
It was almost 30 years ago when I had the sliding table off my T75. Cannot remember the details but it was not difficult.

My 75 had a simpler outrigger support than yours. Not near as sturdy as what’s on the T72 but sufficient for most tasks.

I had that style and the older tube beam style.

They were simple and designed so you could move positions of the support arm quickly an easily. They worked great and never saw the need for anything different

[Patrick Walsh]

Guys,

Yes the outrigger support move around and comes on and off really really easy. I will be interested to see after I have machine all setup and calibrated how easily it will go back to cutting square should I move anything.

I’m mostly wondering how exactly the the two pieces that sandwich the bearings and races come apart. Tbh I have not even really had time to look. My guess is it’s no bid deal as everything on the machine is very very simple imop and at least from first glance seems pretty self explanatory. I’m gonna probably regret having said that at some point lol but I really does seem very uncomplicated from built when things where much more simple, and robust here hee I love robust.