Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 32

Thread: Stepping into the 1990's

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Bolton View Post
    If your running Mozaik you may give CabinetsenseSoftware a look for Sketchup. Thats what we run. You can pretty much setup your library however you construct cabs. Add stretchers/parts anywhere, any type of construction, setup all your construction boring in the machining database. I use it for far more than just cabinets. With a little bit of creative thinking you can pretty much build anything other than heavily radius' work. Paul has been a dream with regards to support. Top notch. Super fast responses.

    You of course have to take some time to setup your libraries initially which sucks and you have some kinks to work out but as with anything the more your in it the easier it gets.

    The software side of it to me is where the statement from a lot of people that if your planning a lot of production on a CNC you'd better budget for a dedicated draftsman because there are a lot of hours in the setup. If the bulk of your stuff will be accommodated by a pretty reasonable library its less of an issue.

    We cut parts for another shop and I have his complete construction style setup as a separate library. If we had several shops like that they could each have their own library and then at that point its pretty much drag and drop other than for specials.

    I really don't like sketchup, I don't know why.

    The libraries are going to be a pain. I'm working through some of that as I go. I'm getting ahead of it a bit. Sorta. Maybe...

    I've kicked around having somebody just doing drawings. I'm not sure I'm there yet. But, I know a shop that does a lot of wacky stuff with just a few guys and a cnc, they've got a dedicated draftsmen doing everything in fusion360.

    I've reached out to a few shops already about taking their cutout work. One uses sketchup with a plug in I know. I'm not sure how we'd transfer that over. I'm guessing if they can make a dxf, we can put that in woodwop and create a tool path off of it. The other shop is running an ancient version of Cabnetware like I was. I told him to try Mozaik out, or come over once I've got a grip on it. It'd make his life easier.


    If I can keep that machine running, (which I won't), it will be easy money.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,685
    One of the folks I met at Aspire Camp was doing the CV vs Mozaik decision dance and cheerfully chose Mozaik for the cost reasons you mentioned. It also seemed to meet his own production requirements for cabinetry.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Wasner View Post
    I really don't like sketchup, I don't know why..
    And your using Mozaik? Lol.. thats an odd one.

    For me personally Sketchup is just like working in the shop, piece of wood, remove part of wood, assemble said piece. Simple. Drawing hygiene is imperative but if your talking Fusion that level of hygiene is beyond surgical clean and more like Mars rover clean.

    I cant phathom working at a cabinet level from dxf unless everything comes in layered and separated. For me thats where the speed is. Toolpaths applied to layers make life simple but again its all back to drawing hygiene.

    Im not pushing SU or CS but I see all the issues and complaints here and on the W web.. I dont see a lot of super slick renders coming out of these 10-15-20k opitions. They all look blocky and crude to me but radius work may be a shinny penny.

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Bolton View Post
    I dont see a lot of super slick renders coming out of these 10-15-20k opitions. They all look blocky and crude to me but radius work may be a shinny penny.

    I drew this yesterday. Good enough for an estimate, but nowhere near ready to send to the router.

    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #20
    beautiful dog!!!

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Wasner View Post
    I drew this yesterday. Good enough for an estimate, but nowhere near ready to send to the router.
    Right, and that "is" sketchup. It all depends on what you are wanting to send. If a block shaded line art drawing will suffice than your good. I have no idea but assumed you are feeding a set of cabs to a job that have already been drawn and designed by an architect. Maybe not. If thats the case highly detailed and rendered drawings are likely less important. Your shops would be more the issue but even yet less so if your dealing with an established contractor and architect that knows (and specs) your shop as the standard.

    As with anything its all what you need. I rely on SU for endless amounts of oddball stuff from 3D exports, to odd cab issues, and photo realistic renders (via plugin). Again, not pushing any option. What you feel most comfortable with is whats going to be the most profitable in your shop.

  7. #22
    Similar, different line style (perhaps 100 to chose from), output directly to CNC layered and with a toolpath template applied, in 15 minutes. CSV or other format excel sheet for doors, drawer parts, drawer fronts, and BOM.
    kitchen.jpg
    Last edited by Mark Bolton; 11-02-2018 at 9:18 AM.

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Bolton View Post
    Right, and that "is" sketchup. It all depends on what you are wanting to send. If a block shaded line art drawing will suffice than your good. I have no idea but assumed you are feeding a set of cabs to a job that have already been drawn and designed by an architect. Maybe not. If thats the case highly detailed and rendered drawings are likely less important. Your shops would be more the issue but even yet less so if your dealing with an established contractor and architect that knows (and specs) your shop as the standard.

    As with anything its all what you need. I rely on SU for endless amounts of oddball stuff from 3D exports, to odd cab issues, and photo realistic renders (via plugin). Again, not pushing any option. What you feel most comfortable with is whats going to be the most profitable in your shop.

    They've actually got native rendering now. Or, they've hidden sketchup in the software somehow. It used to, and still can open things in sketchup though.

    You'd laugh at the renderings I used to send. They were horrible. The shop drawings weren't as good, but they were good enough and that's all I'd usually supply. But, I'm generally working with somebody that knows what they're looking at as I don't typically work with the clients themselves too much, usually just the designer.

    I don't put much value in the renderings. Maybe I should be, I don't know.

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Wasner View Post
    I don't put much value in the renderings. Maybe I should be, I don't know.
    Kinda sounds like its not needed for you which is another bonus. Had replied to brad's but for whatever reason when I edit on the phone my posts just immediately delete. We find things a bit to the opposite in that homeowners typically require a good bit more detail and finish in the drawings over designers/architects unless they are wanting to pass your drawings off as theirs which has never happened to us. You seem to have a pretty sweet setup in a pretty well established contractor base, perhaps most commonly dealing with an already designed layout, customers/contractors that know and trust your construction, and no in-house finishing (gah!.. ). Almost sounds like utopia ;-)

    I wouldnt think you'd need anything more than a package that allows you full control over the odd ball construction details but that level of control may come bundled with the visual gee gaws. We are subscription based which sucks because you pay in perpetuity and will inevitably see annual increases over time but it seems like doing the math out 10 years or so its still cheaper than the usual suspects in the big cab software game for us. We could never swing the numbers for those titles and we do so much odd stuff that having the ability to be in the same cad environment all the time just makes sense.

  10. #25
    Welp, we're up and running with it. A bit of a blessing in disguise but the shop is a bit slow right now so it's given me a chance to run some test cabinets, then things for the shop. Trial by fire with this thing would be extremely unpleasant.

    This was the first nest to come off the router. I think it was about six and a half minutes of machine time.



    We've had a few sheets in a 4-1/2 minute range when there's no shelf holes. Shelf holes take a long time. The machine I was looking at buying originally had a larger drill head in it. I think if or when this router is replaced, we're going to go with the biggest one possible. Right now we punch 4 holes at a time, and that's not terrible, but 8 would be better...

    There's a few other quirks I'm not thrilled about. Being a lower end machine, the drill block and the spindle are on the same z drive. They move at the same time. So when it's doing shelf holes, it can't have a tool holder in the spindle, so it has to drop off whatever tool is in the spindle, then pick up a plug so it doesn't get debris in the spindle. That takes time.
    This isn't really the router, but my post processor needs some tweaks. It's not parking the gantry where I want at the end of a run. I can change it in the cam software for each nest or run, but that's a pain. I'm sure it's a simple tweak, I just don't want to monkey with it unsupervised.
    Another post issue. I have to mirror the X & Y on every nest in Woodwop. One more step I'm not a fan of.

    I bought a cheap tablet off of Amazon to put the nests on coming from Mozaik. A run of 40 sheets might have 70 sheets of paper associated with it depending on the number of flipped parts. I don't like the idea of wasting that much ink or paper. A .pdf in a Google Drive folder is a pretty cheap alternative.


    Woodwop is crazy complicated. It's super powerful. There's nothing that the machine can do that will be limited by the cam software. But, I'm mostly stupid and it's been tough for me to build things in that environment. A super nice feature is being able to build everything parametrically though. Create some parameters, use those parameters in formulas and you don't have to make everything a "one off" part. Save it, and if you need it again, you just tweak the parameters and everything comes out perfect. I'll make Woodwop my bitch, but it's going to be a while.

    Mozaik is working really well for us. There's some things that I can't stand in producing drawings for the shop floor, but I've got some work arounds I'm tinkering with. I also am not a fan of the layout of the cut lists. They are difficult to read and could stand some improvement. Mozaik is open to ideas, and will custom make some things for you. If there's demand, they'll just make it an option. I have to send them a template and see what it'll cost. Hopefully they like it and it won't cost me anything, they'll just add it to the software.



    The biggest thing, I wish I would've pulled the trigger a long time ago. Cycle time on sheets will probably be down around 10 minutes average from loading to loading once I've got a good system in place. On my best day. I mean BEST DAY, when I'm sharp, and uninterupted, a sheet would go from rack to parts ready for assembly in 35 minutes. That didn't include stretchers, or nailers, or shelves. The cnc is doing the same amount of work in 15% of the time, and the parts only have to be handled twice. I figure the average part was handled six times before it was ready to go to the benches. There's also no errors on it's part. No setting of the fence in the wrong spot, no inaccuracies. If a part is wrong, it is perfectly wrong. If it's not correct on the CAD end, it won't be correct coming off the router.

    If I were just starting out as a cabinetmaker, the first two tools I would purchase would be a CNC and an edgebander. You can fund anything else you want in a wood shop with those two tools. You might not be doing what you want for the first few years, (not like you would be anyways), but you could hit the ground running and be profitable right from the start doing work for other shops.

    I figure this one tool will save me personally 3-400 hours a year, and will make another $60-100k of revenue per year easily possible. That's huge. Those numbers go up with more business coming in the door.


    I've said this numerous times, I've enjoyed building a business and shop more than anything I've ever built outta wood.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,685
    'Glad you're up and running with that beast! Cut looks good and yea...it's going to kick things up a few notches when it comes to workflow once you get "in the groove" and are moving sheets though it efficiently. Learning curve is what it is...but you'll get there!
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    In the foothills of the Sandia Mountains
    Posts
    16,620
    6.5 minutes of machine time for the whole sheet?
    I’d love to see a video of the drilling head in operation.
    Please help support the Creek.


    "It's paradoxical that the idea of living a long life appeals to everyone, but the idea of getting old doesn't appeal to anyone."
    Andy Rooney



  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Page View Post
    6.5 minutes of machine time for the whole sheet?
    I’d love to see a video of the drilling head in operation.
    Tough to see. The gantry is all closed off with a skirt, then the heads have a brush all around them. I'm going to try shoving a GoPro in there maybe.

    The sheet pictured I think was the one that was 4:21. No shelf holes, one tool change.
    Last edited by Martin Wasner; 12-14-2018 at 9:08 PM.

  14. #29
    Never mind, I lied. That sheet has shelf holes

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Prashun Patel View Post
    beautiful dog!!!
    For whatever reason, this didn't compute with me before.

    That's Tinker, She is a Hungarian Vizsla. Great dog. Crazy, but great. I posted a shop tour video in the shop forum, Shes following me around the whole time.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •