I'm about to test finishing on Spanish cedar.

[Michael Costa]

My first time adirondack chairs and table have been built, disassembled, sanded (120 grit), and ready for finish.

Since I don't want to muck this up I'm going to do some testing on scraps. If I'm doing something drastically wrong please tell me. I have plenty of scraps.

5 side grain scraps
1) No conditioner, stain with Sikkens Proluxe Cetol SRD, no sanding sealer, topped with Proluxe 23 Plus RE
2) Minwax pre stain conditioner, cetol srd stain within 15 minutes, bullseye sanding sealer, Cetol 23
3) conditioner, stain within 2 hours, sealer, Cetol 23
4) same as above but wait 8 hours to stain
5) same as above but wait 12+ hours to stain

(I'm testing the different times due to the contradictory info I keep finding about staining before or after the conditioner has dried).

End grain
Sanded to 220 (sanding pad) then try 10% PVA to seal
Same and above but use bullseye seal
Then I'll try both again sanded to 320 first.

I'll be using either natural bristle brushes or Terry cloth sponges for application. Not sure which yet.

This is very soft wood (Janka 600 something) and I know it will suck up anything I put on it.

😨

[Wayne Lomman]

Using some form of conditioner before the Cetol will defeat the purpose of using it. Cetol are penetrating products so any barrier, sealer, preconditioner etc will prevent them from working. Option 1 is the only one that I would use in practice. It is also the simplest and the one that uses products that are designed to work together. The others - Minwax and Bullseye - are developed independently and without consideration for each other or the Cetol. You use them at your own risk rather than option 1 which is based on science.

The end grain is best treated by sanding to a fine enough grade so that you get the colour you want. End grain is even more critical to protect and putting a sealer under the Cetol is again going to stop it from penetrating which it needs to do to work. Go for the easiest one which is Option 1. Cheers

[Doug Hepler]

Michael

To answer your question, I do not think you are doing anything wrong. Not at all. It is wise to finish test pieces.

I am not familiar with Cetol. It appears to be a decent alkyd based spar varnish with UV absorbers. I usually prefer McCloskey Man-O-War or Epifanes spar varnish because I have seen test results with them and because I have experience with them.

If Spanish cedar looks like I think it does, I would not stain it. I would especially not stain it with a "translucent" stain that was formulated for siding. Translucent stain will obscure whatever character the grain may have. Won't it darken in the sunlight anyway? I do not know whether your wood is prone to blotch when stained. I will say that pre-washing is much more difficult and unpredictable than the Minwax label would lead you to believe.

As it happens, today I put the second coat of McCloskey on an outdoor chair I just finished out of Red Grandis. This wood is somewhat lighter in color than Spanish cedar (pinkish, actually). It does not have much grain figure. A highly diluted oil stain might have popped the grain a bit more, and you might consider trying that instead of a commercial pre-wash. Try a little stain diluted with BLO or MS. (actually that would accomplish the same effect as a pre-wash) I seriously considered staining my chair but I am glad that I did not because the McCloskey has enough tint in it to intensify the grain and darken the wood to an appealing dark tan color. Looks a bit like teak.

Doug

[Michael Costa]

Actually, the stain color is cedar.

I think I'm just trying to make sense of sealers, conditioners, and everything in between.

I read that when finishing a soft porous wood, use a sealer after it's stained. 10 minutes after the original post I read somewhere that when finishing a soft porous wood a sealer should be applied then lightly sanded before staining. So, which is it? I have no idea.

I've stained 4 scraps so far and all look the same. Lol. Before finish sanding the chair parts, they all had a light to medium brown tone. Well, cedar in color. After sanding, all the pieces ended up very light brown. Almost like a blondish brown. Similar to maple. The stain brought them right back to the original color.

However, is it possible that any finish would have done the same?

If I didn't spend $7.49/bf on this stuff I wouldn't care so much. Perhaps I should put these in a safe place and go grab some 2x6s from lowes and make a total test chair out of that. Worst case, I can paint it or burn it. lol

In the meantime I'll keep testing and will call Proluxe in the morning and get their input.

There's a bright side. I didn't choose teak.

[Michael Costa]

One more thought. The only thing of note on the instructions of the cetol are to wipe the work piece with acetone immediately prior to use.

[Doug Hepler]

Michael

"Sealer" is a film finish. It's a generic term that could include shellac, lacquer or varnish. "Sanding Sealer" contains a divalent stearate (soap) to ease sanding. IMO NONE of these are necessary for your project. Your final finish (cetol) is varnish. Its a sealer. If you like the color of cetol applied to bare sanded cedar then go that way. If you are worried about penetration (I'm not) you could thin the first coat of cetol up to 50-50 with MS. Just wipe off the sanding dust with a tack rag and get to work. I doubt that you need to wipe with acetone. That is sometimes recommended for oily exotics like rosewood or teak.

Another use of the word "sealer" is in regard to sealing oil stain. Oil stain will often bleed into the first coat of varnish and smear. Sometimes people will apply a thin coat of dewaxed shellac over oil stain to prevent this. I think that sometimes it is a good idea, although it is better to use stain very sparingly and to scrub it off so that there is very little let on the wood to smear. . Others (WL) do not agree with the use of different products (shellac and varnish) in a finishing schedule but they can speak for themselves.

IMO your main concern at this point is letting the cetol dry sufficiently between coats and applying enough coats (e.g., 4??) to stand up to the Arizona sunshine

Doug

[Michael Costa]

Doug and Wayne, you know what you're doing!

I just got off the phone with the makers of Proluxe. For what I'm doing I was told to put a thin coat on, and wipe off whatever doesn't absorb in 10 minutes. No conditioners, no sealers.

This Cetol product is designed to penetrate the wood and bind to the wood fibers.

Basically everything you told me is what what Proluxe told me.

I was told one coat but I forgot to mention I'm in Arizona. I'll put additional coats on my test piece to see how or if it darkens.

Thanks again for your insight guys.