Staining next to inlay

[Phil Potter]

I am building a wine rack out of 3/4 red oak and have almost finished the outer structure (basically a dadoed shelf and rabitted top between two pieces of lumber). I plan to put ply (2x 1/4 inch) from corner to corner to make a ‘X’ to form a total of eight sections to hold the bottles. After assembly and sanding of the main pieces, the color of the wood became much lighter (I have vacuumed and wiped down with mineral spirits), and I am not entirely happy with the contrast of the inlay on the top (see figs).



Would it be possible to tape off the very inner rectangular section on the top with good painters tape (I have had good success with the yellow frog tape) and then spray the rest with a light coat or two of shellac. I could then remove the tape and stain the inset area (nothing too dark, but just something to add some contrast to the inlay).

Is this doable? I have both gel and liquid stain to hand and it would not need to be on the wood for long.

Thanks as always,

Phil

[John TenEyck]

Yes, but I would go about it slightly differently. I would tape of the inner square first, the section you want to stain, then spray everything you don't want stain on with a coat or two of shellac. Then remove the tape and stain the inner square. The sealed outer area won't get stained should you get any on it.

John

[Phil Potter]

John,

Thanks very much, you described how I planned to do it (my description ). However, one thought. Would the dried shellac dissolve in the staining liquid (I don’t know what solvents are in these stains but I am guessing something like hexanes and toluene)? I planned on using an oil-based stain, but I guess I could choose a water-based one, although I have no experience in using them.

Just not sure if the shellac on the wood would gradually dissolve leaving a smudgy edge. I’m planning a few practice pieces to see if this is the case.

Thanks,

Phil

[John TenEyck]

If you use water based or oil based stain the shellac will be fine. Stay away from solvent based stains because they will dissolve the shellac, as you guessed.

I did these inlayed cabinet tops.




It's walnut with maple and walnut "oyster" inlays. I dyed the top with a water based dye. To keep the dye from getting into the inlays I brushed two coats of Sealcoat shellac onto them, freehand, using an artist's brush. What I'm saying is, shellac will keep out dye and stain as long as the solvent doesn't attack it. If you stick with WB or oil based stain you will be fine.

John

[Michael Costa]

Nice piece. I was searching for something yesterday and came across a staining near inlay something or other and I can't for the life of me remember what or where it was.

[Doug Hepler]

Phil.

I may have a different view from John's and yours, assuming that I understand what you plan to do. I have had unpleasant experience with stain wicking through wood into adjoining areas. For example, wicking across the margin of an inlay into the surrounding wood. Therefore, my approach to this would be to mask and/or seal the outside area as you described but then use a toner (tinted varnish) to change the tint of the central rectangle. The idea would be to avoid stain penetration and therefore avoid wicking or bleeding.

Alternatively, you could finish the whole top with varnish. Then mask off the outside and use tinted shellac or gel stain to tone the inside rectangle and finally apply varnish to the whole top.

Nice looking inlay job, by the way.

Doug

[Phil Potter]

Doug,

Thanks for the suggestions. I fooled around over the weekend and found out that the idea of using shellac was probably not good. While it clearly protected the surface areas, it really struggled with large sections of open grain (I used 2 coats) and stain bled in on my test piece. Also, it darkened the wood more than I was expecting and I am trying out other options.

I really like you last suggestion, but will gel stain work on a previously varnished piece of wood?

Thanks for the compliment. I have become a big fan of inlay and love the contrast, but don’t look too closely at the corners, as they suck! Still, my wife thinks I am working wonders and obviously doesn’t want to criticize too much!!

Phil

[Phil Mueller]

Phil, I’m no expert on inlay to be sure, but if I may make a suggestion for any future projects. There is a method that can be used to keep the corners consistent. I first adjust the banding on one length to get the two corners to match. Then I repeat on the opposing length. The banding is then adjusted from the center (or thereabouts) on the other sides to match the corners.

You’ll notice on the piece pictured, that the corners are consistent. I’ve circled in red along the adjoining sides where the “match” is near the middle. I think this is less noticable than an inconsistent corner. It does require some extra cutting/matching. Occassionally, I can’t get the first side corners to match well, so I will actually do 8 separate pieces to get an even pattern. Just some food for thought for the future.

78BF7FCC-1457-49F3-BAF6-CA2CDCCB5E41.jpg

[Doug Hepler]

Phil,

You might have tried it by now, but to answer your question, yes, gel stain will work on previously varnished wood. In my shop gel stain only has that function -- coloring surfaces that will not absorb stain or dye. Just make sure that the varnish had cured completely because it is possible that the solvents in the gel stain could soften the varnish before it had fully cured. You could also tint varnish with a bit of oil stain or use Polyshades to tone the inner rectangle. Finishing brings endless joy, doesn't it?

Best regards

Doug

[Phil Potter]

Doug and Phil,

Thanks for the excellent and very helpful suggestions. I still consider myself a novice at using inlay (I actually prefer using thicker single color wood) but for me contrast is the key. I still haven’t completed the project yet, but have been playing with combinations of shellac, WB poly, and tape to mask different areas. Hopefully, I can wrap this up in the next couple of weeks and I can add photos to demonstrate the final product.

Still accepting good advice from anyone!!

Phil

[Wayne Lomman]

Phil, the technique I use is to mask the inlay and then spray stain. HOWEVER, this is not a wet coat of stain. Turn the spray gun way down and mist the stain on. At no stage does the surface get wet. Use a fast drying solvent stain. After the staining is done, remove the masking and apply a very light coat of clear to the whole job to set the stain. DON'T DENIB. Let that dry then apply another coat of clear. Now you can denib and complete your finishing.

The staining will take a bit of practice. Make the colour a bit weak so you can go over it to even it up if necessary.

This works for blotch prone timbers too, by the way. Keep the stain dryish and it won't take up unevenly because it doesn't have enough liquid to flow. Cheers

[Phil Potter]

Well I finally finished this project (Christmas, kids school events, and soccer delayed things!) and it didn’t turn out too bad. As a I had mentioned previously, I was unhappy with the contrast of the inlay that I can put into some red oak. Therefore, I covered the latter very close to the inlay will yellow Frog tape, and ‘painted’ the inlay with GFHP satin using a small artist brush 3 coats total).

I then removed the yellow tap and carefully covered the inlay with 1/4” 3M 06525 masking tape. The outer section of the red oak was then stained with Rustoelum Summer Oak, and the inner section with GF Brown Mahogany gel stain. I was very careful applying the stain at the tape edges and was only on for 4-5 mins or so.

After tap removal, Bleed through was minimal, if any. After a coat of GFHP semi gloss rethink whole piece, a light sanding over the inlay ‘lines’ and two more coats of the finish things look OK. Before and after pics below.

82464055-68C7-48E6-A465-DC981D0D3D2A.jpg20C2CD05-8787-4456-AFFB-EBC786633AB9.jpg

Thanks fir for all the helpful suggestions!

[Jim Morgan]

Came out very well!

[John TenEyck]

Nicely done Phil.

John