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Thread: Thinking of a Spindle & VFD

  1. #1
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    Thinking of a Spindle & VFD

    So I am picking up more jobs for my Fine Line Automation 4x4 Saturn2 cnc router, I am thinking of a spindle, air cooled as I do not want to mess with another pump and cooling system. My last job ran for 7 hours, the air cooled router I have now seemed to be ok but....

    Automation Technologies has a nice assortment of the 2.2 and 3 Kw ones, round 80 mm to fit my existing mount. Thinking also of a Hitachi VFD thinking the Chinese ones may have issues. I have a 14 pin cable ordered from CNC Router parts online to connect to my prewired control box and of course I will need to wire the other end to the VFD terminals.

    Suggestions?
    Retired Guy- Central Iowa.HVAC/R , Cloudray Galvo Fiber , -Windows 10

  2. #2
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    Why 14 conductor ?? Your vfd not going in your controler box?

    I hate chinese spindle power connectors with junky solder cups. I like Amphenol Ecomate connectors. They allowed me to install a ground on the spindle as well. I also used 14ga Igus chainflex power cable too thats designed to move and not knot/twist/kink up in its jacket during motion.

    I have pics of the connector swap if you get that far.

    Andy at Ugraycnc tests spindles for runout before senfing them and sent me a video of that.

    I run a now discontinued xj200 hitachi on the router snd wj200 hitachi on the big cnc mill. Great vfd's.
    Glad its my shop I am responsible for - I only have to make me happy.

  3. #3
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    I cannot comment on or have an opinion on the specific components you are considering as I am not familiar with them, but agree with the air-cooled version for simplicity and with the effort to move to a spindle. I am SO glad i bought my CNC with the spindle. It's darn quiet on it's own compared to any normal router, runs really smoothly and the variable speed makes for a lot more flexibility, especially if you have i configured to be controlled by your software so you can vary it on the fly to help zero in on the most efficient cutting sweet spot. They are also designed to run and run and run...routers are not really meant for that duty cycle. (The air cooled spindle on my Camaster is an HSD for reference)
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  4. #4
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    My electronics panel is already pre-wired to a 14 pin jack in the bottom of the box. Its designed to be plugged directly into the separately into a purchased pre-wired VFD control panel. I have no idea of how many wires are actually in use.

    This is the one CNC Router Parts uses GMT Air Cooled CNC Spindle 2.2kW 220/380V 24000 RPM
    Retired Guy- Central Iowa.HVAC/R , Cloudray Galvo Fiber , -Windows 10

  5. #5
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    Cool

    Bill...
    I have purchased and resold at least 25 Chinese spindles over the last 5 or 6 years. So far, I have never even received a "hey, that spindle I bought from you 4 years ago finally blew up" from any of the users, and most I am in occasional contact with. The vast majority have been shaft driven fans and 3 or 4 water cooled.

    I have also modified a CNCRP controller with another brand of control and connected the spindle via the connector you mention.

    I also have purchased thousands of dollars in various parts from John at ATinc. His mini VFD's, SunFar brand are good, as are the HY. Take your pick, they all come with fairly clear instructions. BTW I also use the Hitachi VFD's, I forgot the model I started with, but moved up to the WJ200 as it had more IO for ATC use.

    All in all, I could recommend, from past experience, each and every option you bring up. Good luck

    (you should throw in an Acorn when you have that thing apart!)
    Gary Campbell
    CNC Replacement & Upgrade Controllers
    Custom 9012 Centroid ATC

  6. #6
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    Gary thanks for the post, it helps a lot. We were almost up near your home town a week ago. Visited friend in Midland and decided to take a trip down memory lane. It was a trip for me, my wife today has never been to Oscoda Michigan and it was over 50 years for me to visit Wurtsmith AFB. Its all changed nothing like it was. My pick up developed a noise and we decided to skip the UP this time.
    Retired Guy- Central Iowa.HVAC/R , Cloudray Galvo Fiber , -Windows 10

  7. #7
    I went with the Hitachi WJ200 for two reasons - 1) I read many articles and was told by a handful of folks who have experience with VFD's that the Hitachi has far less electrical noise and runs more efficiently than the Chinese VFD's, and 2) the WJ200, while sold as a VFD for a 2.2kW spindle, is rated for running a 3kW spindle which is what I bought. The manual states it can run a 3kW with no issues and I checked with Drives Warehouse in Dallas before the purchase to verify both of these points.

    David
    David
    CurlyWoodShop on Etsy, David Falkner on YouTube, difalkner on Instagram

  8. #8
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    On a wj200 you can:

    1. Program the setup with a computer
    2. The remote panel for it is like $14 and it works great as a readout even when the vfd is controlled via another controller or computer/serially via modbus
    3. You can add your own DC braking resistor

    Where it works, the wj200 is great. Great manual too.
    Glad its my shop I am responsible for - I only have to make me happy.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Falkner View Post
    I went with the Hitachi WJ200 for two reasons - 1) I read many articles and was told by a handful of folks who have experience with VFD's that the Hitachi has far less electrical noise and runs more efficiently than the Chinese VFD's, and 2) the WJ200, while sold as a VFD for a 2.2kW spindle, is rated for running a 3kW spindle which is what I bought. The manual states it can run a 3kW with no issues and I checked with Drives Warehouse in Dallas before the purchase to verify both of these points.

    David
    I might go with this one since the spindle is rated 2.2 Kw and 8 amps full load I would consider that continuous duty and this one should be able to handle it >https://www.driveswarehouse.com/hita...p_230v_1_phase
    Retired Guy- Central Iowa.HVAC/R , Cloudray Galvo Fiber , -Windows 10

  10. #10
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    Bill...
    Don't get me wrong as I use the WJ200 on my "Ultimate" ATC machines, and I am sure that the Hitachi is a higher end product than the Sunfar from ATinc, but its twice the price, and unless you require the additional I/O that I use on the Hitachi, you may be buying feature that you cant use.
    Gary Campbell
    CNC Replacement & Upgrade Controllers
    Custom 9012 Centroid ATC

  11. #11
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    Gary I was concerned with the broadcast electrical noise factor since I am in a residential area, but if thats not an issue I would go with the Sunfar. But I will be using shielded 4 conductor cable to feed the drive so it might not even be a factor.
    Retired Guy- Central Iowa.HVAC/R , Cloudray Galvo Fiber , -Windows 10

  12. #12
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    You can always use my goto EMI/RF noise detector. An AM/FM clock radio, set to AM, between channels. I would say to use a "transistor radio", but then you would know how old I was!
    Gary Campbell
    CNC Replacement & Upgrade Controllers
    Custom 9012 Centroid ATC

  13. #13
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    I went with the Hitachi 022S and ordered an enclosure off Amazon. Got the VFD rated 4 conductor shielded cable from Automation Direct and the air cooled Spindle from John at Automation Tech out of Chicago. Panel build is in progress, I mounted the 30 amp Square D circuit breaker on the outside of the panel to keep fingers out of live wires when turning on and off. Everything is grounded and double grounded. Also on the same side as the CB I mounted some nice stainless steel louvers to cover the 2 1 1/2 inch holes for the cooling air to leave. Bottom of the box will have a filtered 12 vdc fan motor, powered from the 230 volt supply. Blue tape sealed while I did an air flow test with the test fan, real one coming tomorrow.

    The black connector on the left bottom side fits the pre-wired cable that plugs into the pre- wired control box for spindle control.
    The partly finished box inside and the loyal companion shop dog --- Gina the Border Collie
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Bill George; 11-10-2018 at 8:53 PM. Reason: More pictures
    Retired Guy- Central Iowa.HVAC/R , Cloudray Galvo Fiber , -Windows 10

  14. #14
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    Got all the control box to VFD wiring hooked up today had to fix a minor screw up by CNCRouter parts. First in the control box the plug at the bottom that connects the cable to the VFD box had two sets of wires. For another brand of controller board? Thats all fine but they appeared to be in parallel with the other set of wires. Bare wires exposed anyway, so I taped them up. Then I noticed the broken not connected wire to the relay that sends the Run FWD signal back to the VFD, fixed.

    My question of the day for Mach3 users with a Spindle controlled off the software. There does not appear to be a 0-10 vdc or otherwise Feed Back to the control panel to tell Mach3 what the actual speed is or should be.
    So is it just the 0-10 vdc PWM out to the drive and Mach3 just calculates given your numbers I am guessing and scales the RPM read out on the screen?
    Retired Guy- Central Iowa.HVAC/R , Cloudray Galvo Fiber , -Windows 10

  15. #15
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    Bill...
    Since there is no feedback, all controllers will put out a voltage based on the requested RPM/Max RPM *10vdc. The requested RPM is usually displayed on the controller screen. Your actual RPM will depend on how much time you put into calibrating the system, but is usually within 2% on most decent systems, 1% if you take a bit of time with the gains and offsets in the VFD or even a bit closer if there are calibrating settings in the control software.

    There will usually be one range (lower third, middle third, or upper third) where the set vs. actual will usually be closest. I tune to get that third as close as possible
    Gary Campbell
    CNC Replacement & Upgrade Controllers
    Custom 9012 Centroid ATC

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