Carriage Doors - hinge and wind advice.

[Jon Snider]

I’m building a set of doors for my shop, each 4.5’ wide by 8’ tall. I modified the ones in an earlier Fine Homebuilding article using LSL frames and board insulation b/w inner and outer layers of plywood. Once finished the outer surface will be trimmed w 3/4” boards in the classic diagonal carriage door pattern. I haven’t decided yet if I’m also going to do the inside. It’s a woodshop and should look nice but the doors are already over 3” thick and prob weigh over 100# each finished.

The doors will swing out so I’d appreciate some ideas to keep the wind from slamming shut or worse, blowing past the hinge angle and ripping them out of frame.

Hinges - stuck on traditional strap vs mortised butt hinges. From my understanding, butt hinges will be stronger with less door sag.

Ive heard about security ones but have no experience.

Thx for any help

jon

[Jon Snider]

Here are some early pics.

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[Jamie Buxton]

You can use chain to restrain the doors from opening too far. Fasten one end near the top of a door, and the other end to the top jamb.

[Jim Becker]

Use the stronger hinge method...if butt hinges do that, by all means choose them. You can use applied decorative pieces to simulate that you have the strap hinges while embracing the heavy butt hinges. Security hinges just have a non-removable pin so someone cannot easily remove the hinge pin to open the door. You really should use them in this application. Pinning into the floor and top plate when closed adds additional security along with a dead bolt between them so you can open just one side if you want to. The same pins theoretically could be used to fix the doors open to guard against wind issues, but a strap, chain or rope can also be employed. I use both a heavy bungie and a piece of angled steel to keep my outward opening double doors from flying around in the wind.

[Jamie Buxton]

Colorado, hunh? Think now about how you're going to weatherstrip the doors.

[Jon Snider]

Colorado, hunh? Think now about how you're going to weatherstrip the doors.

Working on a few ideas. It does snow here!

[Jim Becker]

If the doors are hung well and pinned in the middle when closed, effectively weather stripping them shouldn't be too hard.

[Malcolm McLeod]

You can use chain to restrain the doors from opening too far. Fasten one end near the top of a door, and the other end to the top jamb.

The chain will probably do just fine, but with doors this big I'd think carefully about the framing and door structure where the chain anchors...

I was at a job site in rural N. Texas and the electrician opened a commercial steel man-way door (3-0 x 6-8) sporting the typical top-mounted hydraulic closer. The wind pulled the door out of his hand, fully extended the closer, and ripped the closer bolts out of the door. The door continued open to 180deg, where it hit the wall. Since it was at the corner of the building, with only ~18" of wall now 'behind' the door, the door actually folded around the building. When we tried to close it, the door had about a 3" bend in it. All in 1/2sec. Oops!

...And Jon's doors are ~50% larger. Consider the wind environment: prevailing wind direction(s), nearby windbreaks or open country. Maybe use eye-bolts thru the wall/door with 1/4"x4"x4" steel 'washer' inside?? Big doors typically slide open for a reason.

[Andrew Seemann]

Here are what mine look like. They are basically framed like a wall with 2x6s, skinned with 7/16 OSB, and insulated. I'm in MN, so insulation was important I just have hinges on the outside. No sag after 8 years. I'm in the country so security isn't that important, but I used the same method when I built my carriage house garage in the city. Even though the bolt heads are on the outside, it takes a ladder and a half hour to remove all the lag bolts with an impact wrench, and I doubt that any thief is willing to do that. it would be easier and quieter to smash a window. Not to mention the door would probably fall and crush them afterwards.

For locks, I put top and floor bolts in and then a simple draw bar. Weather stripping is more difficult than you would think. Even soft foams had too much spring across the whole door, so I ended up folding over 6 mil poly and stapling so that the folded over part would more or less touch the frame and door. It doesn't seal super tight, but I actually need the leakage anyway; it is basically my draft for the unit heater and stove.

I really haven't had a problem with wind, the doors are so heavy and move smoothly but stiffly, so they don't seem to move much due to wind. They are also in a sheltered area, so that probably helps too. They open the full 180 because of how the hinges are mounted, so if wind was a problem, I'd probably get some of those big barn door hooks and mount it so I could hook the door to the building all the way open. That way it would be hard for the wind to catch the full width of the door.

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[Ronald Blue]

Go with strap hinges. They are the best option. You can bolt through the frame rather than relying on screws holding in the wood. Just curious, did you decide on this type of door over a insulated roll up garage door because of ceiling clearance issues?

[Andrew Seemann]

I know I chose the carriage doors because the ceiling is 2 feet higher than the door, and I didn't want the roll supports hanging down (it defeats the purpose of a high ceiling). Plus since these were site built with materials on hand, they were way cheaper and they also insulate better. Additionally I made provisions to be able to hoist things out of the back of a truck that was partially backed in, and an overhead door would have gotten in the way of that.

And they look nicer

[Jon Snider]

Go with strap hinges. They are the best option. You can bolt through the frame rather than relying on screws holding in the wood. Just curious, did you decide on this type of door over a insulated roll up garage door because of ceiling clearance issues?

Accss to the loft over one half of shop, plus wanted to keep the ceiling over the open area clear so I can use a hoist to lift up boats, heavy machines, etc.

[Jon Snider]

The chain will probably do just fine, but with doors this big I'd think carefully about the framing and door structure where the chain anchors...

I was at a job site in rural N. Texas and the electrician opened a commercial steel man-way door (3-0 x 6-8) sporting the typical top-mounted hydraulic closer. The wind pulled the door out of his hand, fully extended the closer, and ripped the closer bolts out of the door. The door continued open to 180deg, where it hit the wall. Since it was at the corner of the building, with only ~18" of wall now 'behind' the door, the door actually folded around the building. When we tried to close it, the door had about a 3" bend in it. All in 1/2sec. Oops!

...And Jon's doors are ~50% larger. Consider the wind environment: prevailing wind direction(s), nearby windbreaks or open country. Maybe use eye-bolts thru the wall/door with 1/4"x4"x4" steel 'washer' inside?? Big doors typically slide open for a reason.

Thanks for the excellent advice.

I didnt go go with a sliding barn door for three reasons. It seemed I would be more effective sealing carriage doors, I wanted to match the look of the doors on the adjacent garage, and a sliding door would have covered up the windows along the front wall next to each door.

[Jon Snider]

I weighed one door in current build condition and it’s only 60 lbs so maybe 80 once finished.

Also forgot to mention, these doors face the street and will only be used when I’m moving stuff in and out, sometimes on a trailer or forklift / pallet jack. Also will use them when I want to roll a boat on a dolly outside for sanding, finishing etc.

I’ve a main door on the other side for daily entrance.

Thx again to all who have posted. This is a great site.

[Tom M King]

I would use strap hinges, and through bolt. I have one building with two 10' wide x 11' tall swinging doors. That building was here when we first acquired the place. I would have done them differently, and will when these finally rot. The building is 24' wide, so the doors are out past the corners when they're open. There is a 4x6 in the ground, with large snap hooks, that grab boat bow eyes to hold them open. They're dangerous to try to open in strong winds.

I've replaced the Stanley strap hinges on them a couple of times in the 38 years we've been here. When I rebuild them to be sliding doors, I'll use Richards-Wilcox hardware, and that's what I would use if I was building new swinging doors.