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Thread: Felder FB710 and condiments

  1. #1
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    Felder FB710 and condiments

    Hi all,
    First post and happy to finally tell you all how much I appreciate this forum.

    Kind of a two parter here.


    Is there anyone here with experience using a FELDER FB710 in a commercial/semi production shop environment?


    How would you rate this machine in over all durability

    Please : I am absolutely uninterested in suggestions for a minimax. I have a brand new one in the shop that after two weeks is still non operational. The tensioning mechanism shattered upon tensioning a 1" CT blade up to 17k psi. Not to mention the slew of factory defects.

    Anyway,

    I make custom furniture and high end cabinetry for the residential and commercial market. A large part of what I do involves making shop sawn veneers and using them to spread a grain pattern across the face of a set of units or within a given piece.

    I'm looking at 2 saws
    FELDER FB710
    OLIVER 217D

    Im basically wondering if the 710, which is essentialy the largest non industrial unit Felder sells, would put up with long term medium use and occasional heavy resaw use.

    I understand that this unit really can't be compared to the iron giants of old, I just need to know if it can take a beating since it is a significantly lower investment than would be the Oliver.

    I was trained on an Oliver and know it will outlast many contemporary saws, in fact it is a dream saw for me, but this decision is for the business so saving money is most important. Plus the Felder has a few bells and whistles that the old guy doesn't including a much higher resaw capacity. Obviously the resaw capacity is irrelevant if the machine can not take a large enough blade or tension it properly but it has a larger clearance so theoretically it is better. Thats what I am hoping you all can tell me. Does it cut the mustard??

    Thanks so much for any and all your experience.

    Daniel

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Zenefski View Post
    but this decision is for the business so saving money is most important.
    Does not replacing whatever you buy now count as saving money?

    I'm not a huge Felder fan. I've got one of their planers and it's very underwhelming. Every piece of their equipment I've had exposure to, I've felt the same way. I have zero experience with their bandsaws though.

    Is Oliver what Oliver used to be?

    For the amount of truly industrial saws out there, used and cheap, why not go that route?

    Furthermore, if it's going to be doing strictly veneer work, why not a belt fed horizontal bandsaw?

  3. #3
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    There are a lot of ways to go here but of the two choices you suggest, I would get the 217D. That said you can probably get a Tannewitz G for less money than a similar condition 217D, they seem to be everywhere these days. I would get one of those and put on a medium/large feeder.

    The 710 is not built as heavy as the Formula (Minimax) S700P but it is still a good saw.

    Not to derail the thread but I would be interested in which Formula you bought (I assume new) and what issues besides the tensioning mechanism you had. Also interested in what exactly broke there as well. The MM/SP Centauro built SCM saws have always been about the safest bet in machinery, definitely in new bandsaws.
    Last edited by Van Huskey; 10-23-2018 at 10:58 PM.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

  4. #4
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    Granted, I have a Felder fb510, not 710, but I really like Felder stuff. That being said, I've been using a Powermatic FB 1800v bandsaw at Anderson Ranch and have been very impressed with this saw. It is the real deal, and I'd suggest looking at it as well.

    Mike

  5. #5
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    -Martin
    good point!
    Nice tips on felder
    This is a 40's or 50's era oliver so it IS what they used to be
    Yes, Industrial used is nice but I'm just trying to cut wood and not spend a bunch of time fixing things. I forgot to mention that the Oliver is completely restored to better than new condition.
    Not strictly veneer. More of a general use machine with sometimes heaven veneer work
    Thanks

  6. #6
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    Van
    Roger the feeder. Its the only way to go. Not really sure the 710 would carry a good feeder.

    Ill PM you about the formula stuff.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Zenefski View Post
    Van
    Roger the feeder. Its the only way to go. Not really sure the 710 would carry a good feeder.

    Ill PM you about the formula stuff.
    The 710's table is plenty big and stout enough for a medium feeder but honestly, if you have the room and the budget life will be a lot easier if you set a saw up for resawing and have another for contour cutting. Moving a feeder on and off a saw is not a pleasant experience.

    BTW are you looking an Oliver from Eagle Machinery? If so they do great work but are certainly on the expensive side.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

  8. #8
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    The oliver is from a private seller. Retired machinist and woodworker. It is probably too expensive as well but he went all the way in and upgraded a few things too. It is absolutely in perfect condition. shoulfd probably go to a museum as opposed to my shop.
    Re: FB710 table and stoutness. I would think it is likely fine.Have you operated one and experienced its durability and strength?
    I do/will have two saws but predominantly work on my big saw with a 3/4" or 1" blade on at most times. Resawing activity historically is heavy but intermittent. My little guy I only keep for sentimental value. Definitely 0 room to spare. No matter how many times I move to a larger space.

    Thanks

  9. #9
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    A 710 will tension a Lenox Trimaster 1" to 25000 lbs as will an Oliver 217. The Oliver will outlast the FB. I have a 116 and a 217. The 116 tends to be cheaper as 36" machines are far more common than 30". I have yet to bog down my 217 3 hp 900 rpm motor but the 5 hp 720 rpm on my 116 is has far more power and that size saw is more appropriate for a power feeder. I'm biased but the old cast iron saws were production machines. The ACM and Centauro 740 or 700mm machines will be heavier than the FB but I don't know if that difference is significant for your use. A plug and play 116 will cost 2500-4000 and a 217 more like 3500-7000. An Oliver or Yates restored to a high standard will be even more as there is nothing easy or quick about the process. DaveDSCN3625.jpg

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Zenefski View Post
    The oliver is from a private seller. Retired machinist and woodworker. It is probably too expensive as well but he went all the way in and upgraded a few things too. It is absolutely in perfect condition. shoulfd probably go to a museum as opposed to my shop.
    Re: FB710 table and stoutness. I would think it is likely fine.Have you operated one and experienced its durability and strength?
    I do/will have two saws but predominantly work on my big saw with a 3/4" or 1" blade on at most times. Resawing activity historically is heavy but intermittent. My little guy I only keep for sentimental value. Definitely 0 room to spare. No matter how many times I move to a larger space.

    Thanks
    Outside of the rare place like Chuck Hess' shop you generally don't see higher end restorations in professional shops, all that pretty paint doesn't make money. Unless you just need a 30" saw as I mentioned earlier as did Dave the 36" saws are going to be cheaper.

    I haven't run a 710 only played with them. Solid saw but the general view, as well as my personal view, is the Felder X10 series is the lesser of the three common Euro steel framed saws sold in the US. The Centauro built SCM saws are usually consider #1, the ACM built Lagunas #2 and the Felder X10 saws 3rd. We know the SCM saws are out for you and Felder's X40 series only has the 640 and then resaws.

    None of the saws being discussed are slouches and likely will serve you well for years. YOu might want to PM Darcy Warner he might well be able to get you into the type of old iron saw that would be good for you, you can get a solid working machine without the museum level restoration.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

  11. #11
    Either buy the restored one, or listen to Van and call Darcy and see what he's got floating around.

  12. #12
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    I have a MM20, great saw. If my experience with Felder’s FD250 indicative of their overall build heft then I would not consider their equipment.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  13. #13
    I get your hang up with the Minimax Centuro saws if only on account of the bad taste left in your mouth..

    Funny the topic is largely about switching to Felder. Reason I say so much as I have had the experience you are having with Minimax with more than one Felder machine. In all reality I guess bad experiences could be had with any brand machine.

    I guess what I’m getting at is I own a number of Felder machines, I also own one Martin machine and use many SCMi machines at work. My Felder machines all have left me underwhelemed and or very frustrated. My Minimax SP500 was plug and play. I threw a 1” Lenox Woodmaster on it and I can resaw perfect veneers with my eyes closed.

    The 80’s Scmi machinery I use at work is a dream. The newer stuff is either annoying as hell and imop junk and or just bland and I can tell will clearly not be around in 30 years kicking strong like our 80’s equipment.

    I have looked at the Oliver machine you mention and to be honest if I where you I would go that route regardless of the cost. Cry once right, I’d rather cry about spending more than I want and having a machine perform as expected and needed vrs cry twice when said machine gets replaced and the whole thing cost me double as it’s not meeting my expectation.

    Just buy the Oliver...

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Wasner View Post
    Either buy the restored one, or listen to Van and call Darcy and see what he's got floating around.
    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 10-24-2018 at 8:34 AM.

  14. #14
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    Update:

    I appreciate the advice from you all. My gut was confirmed so i put a deposit on the Oliver today. It happens to be stored at an industrial motor shop so I had the guy there start outfitting it with a VFD. All in all, I'm over the moon and should have the saw up and running next week.

    Daniel

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Zenefski View Post
    Update:

    I appreciate the advice from you all. My gut was confirmed so i put a deposit on the Oliver today. It happens to be stored at an industrial motor shop so I had the guy there start outfitting it with a VFD. All in all, I'm over the moon and should have the saw up and running next week.

    Daniel
    I think you made the right choice or at least a very good one. BTW I am still super interested in the issues with the SCM saw.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

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