Buying lumber from a cut list.

[Michael Costa]

I'm almost done with my shop and decided to build myself an Adirondack chair to chill out in a corner. I'm building the one from popular mechanics. I've never made anything using a cut list. It was a nightmare.

I took the cut list to my local wood supplier and must have spent 2 hours sifting thru various sized pieces of Spanish cedar to get what I needed. I needed about 24 board feet and after all that time left with about 35 board feet. Is there a better way to go about this? Anyone can lay this out on paper but you're at this he mercy of what is available when you get to the wood store. It got frustrating having to buy extra 4" wide boards because I can't fit more than one 2.5" cut on them. There will be a ton of waste at $7.49/board foot

Any ideas or at least empathy?

[David Bassett]

... Any ideas or at least empathy?

Lots of empathy! I too struggle with this.

I heard Shannon Rogers speak at (the last?) WIA about this. He had some suggestions, but for it to really go well you need a pretty good idea what sizes are available. (His day job is in a commercial lumber yard. He clearly has this last, key, bit down! Me, not so much.)

The gist of his method it to sort your cut list for buying, not in the project order that makes sense for describing the project. E.g. sort by thickness, then width, and group by length. Now you might group two or three narrow pieces within a wider group because you can rip them all from wider stock. You would also want to group your lengths to match the available boards (or the max length you can transport.)

E.g. for an 8' Nicholson English-style work bench build from 2x12's. You'd group each top pieces individually if you can only transport 8' boards, but might group a top with a (<4') leg piece if you can transport 12' boards. Etc.

Once you have a rough plan, you still have to be flexible to take advantage of the stock on hand that day. (Or that great sale, or....)

[Doug Garson]

No ideas but I can empathize. Recently I went yo my local wood supplier to get some hardwood to replace my wheelbarrow handles. My first choice was Hickory but based on what they had in stock and their minimum off cut limit (they won't cut a piece if the offcut left behind is less than 6 ft) it would have cost my almost $100 and most of the wood would have been left over. As I drove home I saw a pile of free wood in a warehouse parking lot and picked up some suitable wood (I think it was Oak) for free.

[Mark Rainey]

empathy...hobby woodworking is expensive. It is painful to pay $400 for rough lumber but better to get extra than to keep running back when you just need a few more board feet to finish the project. Your reward is the experience and final result. It is worth it.

[glenn bradley]

Using a cut list to determine quantity is a very general step. Careful parts selection takes projects from common to special. If you simply cut the next part from the next section of material that will yield it you end up with questionable figure matching.

Here's an example of boards potentially taken from the same piece of wood that could be used on the same piece but, not on the same part of that piece.

Good-door-Bad-door-1.JPG

If you use the "next piece available method of parts selection you end up with the door in the top of the following picture instead of the door in the bottom.

Good-door-Bad-door-2.JPG

None of this matters if you plan to paint your project.

Buying adequate stock for careful parts selection has the hidden value of having just the right piece of scrap for something down the road. This requires that you organize your off-cuts and scraps to some extent. I've never understood people who act like their material is solid gold when they are buying it but treat it like trash when it is leftovers. There are tons of good ideas for storing and organizing materials on the web and right here at SMC ;-)

[Jim Becker]

Since you know the approximate board feet you need for your project (be sure you included some reasonable percentage of extra for matching/mistakes, etc) you start by pulling out boards and laying them or standing them so you can visually ascertain how well they match for grain and color. This is the first "finishing" step for any project! Pull out more than you need and don't be afraid to reject any board for any reason important to you. What you want in the end is a complete set of material that will be homogeneous and look like it all belongs together. Yes, that takes time. But it's worth every minute. And yes...extra/leftover is never wasted. Use it for future projects. It's better to have "too much" than not enough for sure.

[Ralph Okonieski]

I use a software program called “cutlist” to minimize waste when cutting pieces for a project. Suggest using it before purchasing lumber to estimate how many pieces and how they might be cut. Guess at the width and length of available boards, running multiple times with different guesses just to get a rough idea. This assumes you have an approximate idea of what might be available. If it is dimensional lumber, try wider and narrower boards. From the various scenarios, This should give a rough idea of the size and quantity of lumber to buy. After buying lumber, rerun with actual dimensions.

[Nick Decker]

Most cutting boards started out being chosen for something else. Sad but true.

[Matt Day]

Taking just a the cultist is asking for a headache. Try to simplify it and put your pieces into categories by thickness and width. Show up to the lumberyard knowing you need, for example, (4) 6” wide 8’ long 4/4 boards, 2 8” wide 4/4 10’ boards, and (2) 5” wide 8/4 8’ boards. Of course you’ll find some boards that are a bit narrower, wider or longer, but make those decisions at the yard. Round up at home when you make your list.
That’s generally how I do it at least.

[Lee Schierer]

Anyone can lay this out on paper but you're at this he mercy of what is available when you get to the wood store.

That is the crux of the matter, you need to find out what is available before you venture to the wood store. Where I buy lumber, they have a printed listing of materials and sizes they normally have in their inventory. I can put that information in my spread sheet and determine exactly how many feet of what dimensioned size I need and get pretty close to the cost was well. If I don't need all of a particular size and length, it give me space for errors or grain matching. If they are out of a particular size when I go to buy, it is relatively simple to figure out what alternate size can be put to use.

[scott vroom]

It got frustrating having to buy extra 4" wide boards because I can't fit more than one 2.5" cut on them. There will be a ton of waste at $7.49/board foot

Any ideas or at least empathy?

If you glue up two 4.25" boards you can rip three 2.5" boards from it with minimal waste.

[Doug Hepler]

Michael

Regarding empathy, I have been in your situation many times. It is frustrating, but it is the nature of the lumber business, which is basically a wholesale business with (usually) slender profit margins. I use Frank Paxton Lumber in Denver. They try to cater to small, one-off contractors and hobbyists. Still, I can only buy what they have on hand. I have tried Rockler and Woodcraft. They are more retail oriented and more accommodating, but their prices are (IMO) disproportionately higher. So, I have adjusted my attitude and my methods. Here is a summary that incorporates a lot of what earlier responses have said:

(1) It helps to know what will be on hand. This may require a phone call or a preliminary visit to the yard. 1 x 6 x 10' is probably a safe guess for many common species, since you may need to cut longer boards to transport them anyway. Some species may be available only in smaller boards.
(2) Use a layout program. I use the free version of cutlist (http://www.delphiforfun.org.ws034.al...ms/CutList.htm). Note that this is different from the "free" trial version of Cutlist Plus. It is a bit clunky but it works very well. Put your best guess of the sizes of supply pieces and your cutout parts into the program and use its layout to estimate how many boards you will need.
(3) Take your time to get what you need. Don't be afraid to ask questions and say what you want. (Not that you would not, but if they are busy or impatient it can be hard.) Depending on the grade of the lumber, allow up to 20% extra for cutting around defects, do-overs, etc.

Let me elaborate a bit on the idea of attitude when buying from a lumberyard. It helps a lot if you go prepared with contingency plans. Last week, I wanted 20 linear feet of 1 x 6 and 20 linear feet of 1 1/2 x 6. Like you, I am making a chair for outdoor use. I researched available lumber at Paxton's that would be suitable for my project.

I was going to buy Iroko, but when I got there, I found out that the iroko was rough sawn. I considered planing it but since it was iroko I nixed that idea. I was willing to pay the premium for S American mahogany, but I just did not think the quality of the mahogany was worth the premium price. (This is all self service) They had white oak on sale and I considered that. I came home with 31 BF of red grandis. They did not have any 6/4 so I have just finished gluing up 1-by to make 1 1/2" thick stock. This took me twice as long as I expected, but I was happy with what I brought home. I did not get all 1 x 6, the red grandis was in various widths. I put the actual widths into Cutlist and was able to get very compact cuts, with about 20% actually left over for the next project and very few small cutoffs for the burn pile. I recognize that this would have been much more difficult if I had to work through an impatient counterman, but I would have done it anyway.

A long story. I hope it helps.

Doug

[Simon MacGowen]

I have never done a build based on a published cutlist. For the very few projects that were based on other people's work ( eg New Yankee WS), I created my own dimensions and lumber list.

If you do plan to use a cutlist, digest it and create your own (which you can understand) and use that to guide your lumber purchase.

I never budget waste for my projects but I would 30 to 50 more for future projects. What this means is that I do not pay particular attention to how much extra wood I would need.

I do make mistakes like anyone else but I am seeing significant dwindling of occurrences of mistakes over time.

Simon

[Dave Richards]

The problem with a cutlist is that it can't account for the defects you'll need to cut around or the excess you'll need to purchase because the boards are longer than the pieces you need to cut out of them. You might be able to nest some parts on wider stock to help reduce the amount of waste but it depends on how you want the grain to run. If you are OK with the grain following one tapered side of the back slats, you could get two slats from a piece about 5-1/2 in. wide. I'd personally rather taper both sides of the slats to keep the grain running the right direction although this would use a little more wood. FWIW, I made a model of the chair you mentioned and generated a cutlist. Looks like about 17 bdft with minimal waste.

[Tom M King]

On very rare occasions, it works out. I sent my cutlist for a bunch of reproduction 18th Century window sash to a supplier of Southern Long Leaf Pine. I told him, if possible, I wanted all very fine, straight grain, with no nail holes, or knots. A few weeks later I got a call from him saying he had it together. He had been in the Heart Pine reclaiming business for 40 years, and had some piles of stuff that were "too good to throw away, but too small for anyone to want". It was perfect. He said he was about to give the small pieces, that turned out to be perfect for muntins, to a Boy Scout Troop, to use for kindling. He didn't come close to giving it to me, but I was glad to get it at any price.