Plasma tv tripping arc fault breaker

[Jon Nuckles]

We just did a remodel and our electrician put in arc fault breakers on the circuit that supplies the outlets in our family room. We have a plasma tv that was made in 2007 and it has caused the breaker to trip repeatedly. None of the other equipment causes a problem and I have been using an extension cord from a kitchen outlet (GFCI circuit) for the tv as a temporary solution. A little online research reveals that plasma televisions tripping arc fault protected circuits is a common problem. I was going to treat this as a good excuse to buy a new LCD tv, but went shopping last weekend and decided, for a lot of reasons, to wait on the upgrade.

Now I need to solve the tripping issue to get rid of the extension cord. I can think of two possibilities, but I don’t love either one. First, I could switch the breaker to a GFCI. Apparently, however, AFCI is required by code for this room. The other option is to run the television cord through a 1” conduit that I had the electrician put in the wall before the closed cell foam insulation was sprayed in the stud bays. I’d have to cut the plug off the cord to fish it through the conduit and into my basement. I could then wire on a new plug and hook it with an extension cord to a gfci circuit in the basement. My concern is whether there is any danger of overheating with the insulated cord in the conduit. I also have an hdmi cable in the conduit, which might increase the risk of overheating and maybe create signal interference?

Can anyone suggest a different solution or set my mind at ease on one of these two?

Thank you.

[Jim Becker]

Honestly, if you can make due with the current extension cord for about a month and a half, you'll be spot on timing-wise for holiday sale pricing on a new set that will not only solve the problem you are experiencing, but also give you a better picture with far less power consumption. A lot of us do run cords through a wall for mounted TVs, however...not at all uncommon.

[Paul F Franklin]

You can try adding an AC line filter between TV and outlet. Something like: https://www.amazon.com/APC-2-Outlet-.../dp/B000OF4R8C

You are not looking for a surge suppressor but an AC line noise filter. The AFCI trips because the TV is generating noise on the line that looks like the arcing waveform the breaker is designed to detect. It's OK if the unit also includes surge suppression, but the filter is what you likely need.

I don't have experience with the unit liked to above, but used a similar filter on some exercise equipment that kept tripping the AFCI and it worked like a charm.

[Roger Feeley]

Ditto on the filter idea. I was thinking more radically about a Uninterruptable Power Supply (UPS) that should do that same thing. But I like the filter idea a lot better.

[Wade Lippman]

How many family rooms don't have AFCI? How many of them suffer fires?

[Arthur Fleming]

How many family rooms don't have AFCI? How many of them suffer fires?

Wade, you speak the truth, but alas not an option if you want to stay code legal, (Some of us may not be totally code legal)

[Wade Lippman]

Wade, you speak the truth, but alas not an option if you want to stay code legal, (Some of us may not be totally code legal)

There are no code police. I certainly wouldn't do anything dangerous; but what's going to happen here? They don't suddenly burst into flame; they slowly deteriorate visibly.
I've only ever seen ONE damaged outlet and it was an ancient 2 wire; probably 60 years old.

I don't know if my 12 year old Plasma TV trips a AFCI as it has never seen one. I can take it into bedroom and find out.

[Doug Garson]

I think the code police are called insurance companies. Don't know this for a fact but I suspect at least some insurance companies might challenge a claim if you had a fire after a renovation that didn't meet code. If you don't have a renovation you are probably grandfathered into the code in effect when the house was built.

[Paul F Franklin]

Older back stabbed receptacles are notorious for developing loose connections over time, leading to increased resistance, which leads to heat, which deteriorates the insulation, which can lead to arcing, and yes, fire.

There are, on average, about 50,000 residential fires per year in the US attributed to electrical causes, leading to 500 deaths and 1.3 billion in property damage.

But the AFCI is not only intended to protect against failed receptacles; it's also to protect against shorts most commonly caused by deteriorated insulation. Age and heat deteriorate the wire insulation and mice love to chew on wires as well. I've worked on older houses where the insulation on the wires was so brittle the slightest disturbance of the wires caused the insulation to crumble off.

I've long ago replaced all the cheap back-stabbed receptacles and switches in my house. And as I remodel areas I've been upgrading to AFCI breakers and interconnected smoke alarms. Cheap protection if you ask me.

[Wade Lippman]

Older back stabbed receptacles are notorious for developing loose connections over time, leading to increased resistance, which leads to heat, which deteriorates the insulation, which can lead to arcing, and yes, fire.

There are, on average, about 50,000 residential fires per year in the US attributed to electrical causes, leading to 500 deaths and 1.3 billion in property damage.

But the AFCI is not only intended to protect against failed receptacles; it's also to protect against shorts most commonly caused by deteriorated insulation. Age and heat deteriorate the wire insulation and mice love to chew on wires as well. I've worked on older houses where the insulation on the wires was so brittle the slightest disturbance of the wires caused the insulation to crumble off.

I've long ago replaced all the cheap back-stabbed receptacles and switches in my house. And as I remodel areas I've been upgrading to AFCI breakers and interconnected smoke alarms. Cheap protection if you ask me.

Yes, if he had a renovation and left 75 year old wiring in it, then his wires may have deteriorated. OP, is that what you did?

Okay, 50,000 fires. Lets say half would have been prevented by a AFCI. Maybe 5,000,000,000 outlets in the US not protected by a AFCI. So, one chance in 200,000 of a fire. Much higher in a building over 50 years old. Much lower in a building under 50 years old. OP, which are you?

My old house had all back stabbed outlets. I replaced 2 or 3 when they failed. None had any damage, they just didn't make connections anymore. How many of the ones you replaced showed damage?

I am not belittling code requirements. It is just that virtually every family room in the country does not have AFCI breakers. If he forgoes the new TV, he will be in no more danger than anyone else (or me). Running his extension cord will create exactly the same danger as swapping out the AFCI; probably a great deal more.

[Wade Lippman]

I think the code police are called insurance companies. Don't know this for a fact but I suspect at least some insurance companies might challenge a claim if you had a fire after a renovation that didn't meet code.

Document that has happened. People say it all the time, but I have never heard of it happening.
And since it is only an issue in event of a exceptionally improbable incident...

[Doug Garson]

As I said in my post I don't know it for a fact but here's a quote from an insurance company web site that supports the statement:

" In addition, your policy might not cover losses or damage that result from the faulty wiring. Even if you would normally be covered for something under your policy, you may not recover anything on your claim due to the possible attribution of the damage to faulty workmanship."
http://www.cfmutual.ca/faulty-wiring...-not-cover-it/

Here's another quote from an insurance organization:
"Similarly, doing DIY jobs like updating plumbing or electrical work incorrectly will lead to denied homeowner insurance claims too—an electrical fire or water damage due to mistakes can occur easily if you don’t know exactly what you’re doing. If something like a fire consumed your whole home and your insurer found you hadn’t sought the service of an expert, imagine the loss you’d suffer if that claim was denied. That’s an expensive mistake worth thousands upon thousands—and no electrician charges $200K to update wiring. In comparison, their prices seem like a bargain."
http://www.insurancequotes.org/rente...ect-insurance/

Agreed, these are not documented cases and my just be scare tactics by the insurance industry but they sound reasonable to me.

[Jim Becker]

One of the factors that brought the requirement for ARC-fault breakers into code is the excessive use of extension cords which can become damaged or frayed in use. Initially, bedrooms were targeted...we had to accommodate that when we built our addition...but at that point, we were not required to have them for rooms like our media room, etc. It sounds like the requirement is broader at this point.

[Paul F Franklin]

It sounds like the requirement is broader at this point.

Yes, each of the last several code revisions have broadened the areas where AFCI protection is required. I believe as of 2014 code only bathrooms, garages, and unfinished basements are exempt. Those areas do require GFCI protection. Of course, many areas don't adopt the latest code revisions quickly, so worth checking with local code officials to see what is required in one's area.

[Wade Lippman]

Yes, each of the last several code revisions have broadened the areas where AFCI protection is required. I believe as of 2014 code only bathrooms, garages, and unfinished basements are exempt.

I checked on this and found it also requires AFCI protection on lighting circuits. I hope they have more grounding bars on panel boxes.