Plasma tv tripping arc fault breaker

[Leo Graywacz]

Swap the breaker with another. Nothing saying it isn't a defective breaker.

[Paul F Franklin]

Not really an issue. The circuit neutral now goes to the breaker and the pigtail from the breaker goes to the neutral bar, so same number of connections to the bar.
Some manufacturers have added a plug in neutral bus that the breaker connects to when inserted into the panel, so you don't even have to deal with the pigtails. Of course that is only for new construction, not retrofits.

[Jon Nuckles]

Thanks for all the input. Our electrical panel is new, as are all but a couple of circuits in areas of the house that were not remodeled. In the Chicago area, all of the wiring has to be in metal conduit and ours is. Not even armored cable is allowed except for short “whips” for things like undercabinet lighting. With the conduit, we have no risk of animals chewing the wires. The electrician wired all of the outlets and none are back-stabbed. I’m sure we’d be fine with either of my solutions, but I’d prefer a solution that follows code so I think I’ll look into the filter idea.

Replacing the tv was my favored solution, but the salesman I talked to discouraged me because he said the old plasma’s picture would be better than all but the most expensive led tvs (the OLED ones). I figure he has no incentive to talk me out of spending money, so I tend to believe him. I am not a tech guy, and so try to find a reliable source to follow. There’s a New York Times related web site (wire cutter, iirc) that makes product recommendations and they picked a Vizio tv. The salesman I talked to said Vizio had poor “build quality,” but he might say that because his store does not carry Vizio (he says the store doesn’t carry Vizio because of the lower quality). The Vizio is much less expensive than the models he recommended, but I did find a lot of negative reviews of the Vizio on Amazon — along with a lot of positive ones. I’ve also heard that buying a bargain tv on Black Friday is a bad idea because the manufacturers bring out lower quality TVs that they sell only at that time at rock bottom prices to capture the bargain seekers. Or do all televisions have better discounts around the holidays or Super Bowl? If that’s the case, maybe I’ll look again around that time. Anyway, thanks to all who responded!

[Arthur Fleming]

There are no code police. I certainly wouldn't do anything dangerous; but what's going to happen here? They don't suddenly burst into flame; they slowly deteriorate visibly.
I've only ever seen ONE damaged outlet and it was an ancient 2 wire; probably 60 years old.

I don't know if my 12 year old Plasma TV trips a AFCI as it has never seen one. I can take it into bedroom and find out.

Here in Massachusetts, they review the National Electrical Code, make any changes they consider necessary (?), and then pass it as Massachusetts General Law, also known as the Massachusetts Electrical Code, and for violations that lead to death, injury, or high damages, they do prosecute. Arcfault technology is a 2 billion dollar a year industry spread among 4 companies. kinda seems like it’s been driven more by profits than safety. First generation technology was horrible, breaker would trip on fluorescent lights, vacuums, etc, couldn’t be installed adjacent to each other in panels, and so far from the teachers at our code update classes, the numbers of fires are not decreasing as fast as they promised when they made their proposal to change the code, and make them mandatory. I swear by GFI’s, wouldn’t go without them where they are needed, but arcfaults haven’t lived up to their promise, in my opinion. They ARE code, here in Ma. And I’m not saying they don’t trip on arcs, they just have too many nuisance trips, too many being swapped out as soon as the inspector leaves. Got a friend who’s miter saw will no longer run on any of his outlets, because they’ve been changed to arcfault breakers. He doesn’t want to buy a new one without knowing that it will operate on the arcfault breakers. This was tried on 3 different, brand new circuits. Here in Ma. I would estimate that at least 90% of all duplex receptacles sold by the borgs, are illegal where they get installed. Not arcfault protected, not tamper protected (shutters), not inspected.

[Wade Lippman]

I would estimate that at least 90% of all duplex receptacles sold by the borgs, are illegal where they get installed. Not arcfault protected, not tamper protected (shutters), not inspected.

I think replacing an outlet does not require meeting current code; only if you changed the circuit somehow would it have to be AFCI.

[Arthur Fleming]

I think replacing an outlet does not require meeting current code; only if you changed the circuit somehow would it have to be AFCI.

In Massachusetts, you replace a receptacle in a dwelling, you must bring it up to code. That is to be legal, it must be arc fault protected, and gfi protected, and tamper resistant, depending upon it’s location in said dwelling. If you choose to buy a receptacle with all 3 of those protections built in, it’s about $35. This will allow you to cover all receptacles downline in the circuit with AFI/GFI protection.

[Wade Lippman]

I think replacing an outlet does not require meeting current code; only if you changed the circuit somehow would it have to be AFCI.

Then again I could be wrong. Googling suggests that replacing an outlet IS enough to require meeting current code. That brings up the question of why stores are allowed to sell outlets that can't be legally used.

[Jim Becker]

Then again I could be wrong. Googling suggests that replacing an outlet IS enough to require meeting current code. That brings up the question of why stores are allowed to sell outlets that can't be legally used.

I would think that this would be something extremely difficult to enforce. Renovation projects which trigger code compliance typically have permitting/inspection so enforcement is clear. Someone buying an outlet from a big box...or even better, online...isn't going to be observable and I suspect most homeowners can't even spell "AFCI"...

I personally always try to insure I do work to code no matter what, but I'm not a typical homeowner.

[Alan Caro]

John Nuckles,

Plasma TV's can draw a lot of current- typically 300-400W and a very large one can use 600-700W. Internally they run at very high voltages and the plasma can heat to over 2000F. Years ago - 8-10?, they were prohibited for sale in California and Samsung stopped making them altogether in I think in 2013-14. It's too bad as Plasma have the best black and lack of grain as they have a much higher equivalent refresh rate than PCD.

Possibilities:

1. A long extension cord can present quite a lot of resistance. Find the heaviest gauge cord - 12ga. if possible and run the shortest distance possible.

2. The other thing is that kitchens draw the most power in a house, along with air conditioning, so some of the circuit tripping may be as the result of overload when something is running in the kitchen at the same time as TV. A lot of older houses have a circuit that is shared between the kitchen and an adjacent room such as a family room. That is the case in my house- 1968 and the microwave alone draws up to 1600W -the typical rating per outlet. See if you can find a nearby circuit-extension cord distance-that is not running anything in the kitchen. Also, the way plasma TV power supplies create the ionized gas- plasma requires a sudden shock to start and that will make ground fault breakers unhappy.

3. The real cure is your plan to buy a new and LED set. I bought a Samsung 40" 4K smart TV as a computer monitor about eight months ago for $330- a Best Buy sale. It has a very good picture at 3180 X 2160- Bluray resolution. It uses about 80W.

Alan Caro

[Jon Nuckles]

Thank you, Alan, for the information and suggestions. The energy use and the heat it puts out is another reason I want to replace the plasma and likely will before next summer. For the upcoming winter, the extra heat is not unwelcome! It really would make an effective heater for a small room.

Because we just remodeled, our panel and almost all of wiring is new. The family room outlets have their own circuit. Our kitchen outlets, which are on a GFCI rather than an AFCI breaker, do not trip with the plasma plugged in through an extension cord. A workable temporary solution other than aesthetics and the tripping hazard.

[Brian Elfert]

Then again I could be wrong. Googling suggests that replacing an outlet IS enough to require meeting current code. That brings up the question of why stores are allowed to sell outlets that can't be legally used.

Big box stores sell all kinds of things that may not be code legal in that state. Minnesota code doesn't allow flexible connectors for the water connection to water heaters. Big box stores probably carry around a dozen different styles of flexible connectors.

[Brian Elfert]

Thank you, Alan, for the information and suggestions. The energy use and the heat it puts out is another reason I want to replace the plasma and likely will before next summer. For the upcoming winter, the extra heat is not unwelcome! It really would make an effective heater for a small room.

I have a very nice plasma TV, but it is basically a small heater. It uses 400 watts! Most LCD TVs are inferior so I have no desire to replace the plasma until it dies. I would probably get OLED, but they are close to $2,000.