Saw Recommendations - Ripping 8/4 Red Oak

[Eric Schubert]

I'm about to embark on my first major test for building some organization in my shop: a chest of drawers to store my tools. I need several drawers, and figured it would be cheaper (and a good learning experience) to rip the drawer sides, rather than purchase dimensioned lumber. Plus, I have multiple drawer heights. So, dimensioned lumber won't necessarily cut it anyway.

I found a local vendor selling 8/4 slabs of red oak. I plan to rip strips, which I'll then cut to length, flatten/square with hand planes, and cut dovetails to form the drawer sides/fronts/backs. I figured this would be more economical than buying lumber at the proper dimensions to begin with.

I considered cutting these on a table saw, but the one I have (Ryobi job site saw) is pretty much only good for making rough cuts, as it tends to wander from the fence a bit. So, now I'm thinking of ripping them by hand. It'll be a lot more effort. However, there are some benefits to doing it the old-fashioned way: less flying dust, less noise, less annoying my neighbors, honing my sawing skills, and getting some exercise. Maybe it'll be a giant PITA that I'll never want to repeat, but I'm willing to at least give it a try.

So, now I need to find myself a decent rip saw for this task. It doesn't need to be a fancy, high-end, $1k Japanese damascus-style saw or anything. But I need something that will make this task easier than the 8TPI Disston saws that I have laying around. I'm guessing something in the 4TPI range is ideal here, as it's 8/4 lumber, but I'm open to ideas and suggestions around TPI, as well as eastern vs. western saws. Or anything other suggestions people have, really. I just want something that will work and not kill me in the process.

Any suggestions for a reasonably-priced rip saw? Any advice for someone taking on this task for the first time?

[Rob Luter]

You’re resawing? I’d recommend a band saw owned by someone else. Say a cabinet shop. Then a couple of passes through their planer or wide belt sander. I love hand work as much as the next guy, but resawing 8/4 Oak is like digging a pool with a spade.

[Tony Wilkins]

I echo what Rob said. If you really want the hand tool route, I would recommend either a Roubo frame saw kit (not sure what they go for as kits these days but you could buy a bandsaw for what Bad Axe charges) or a 300mm Ryoba Japanese saw. Another option would be a vintage rip saw paired with an aquaintence with a strong arm and weak mind.

[James Waldron]

I work in 8/4 stock a lot. I go with a 4 1/2 tpi hand saw from Thomas Flinn. (I'd go with a 4 or 3 1/2 tpi saw but I haven't found one that I can see doing really well. Far as I know, there are no new ones for sale. There are no really good rip handsaws other than the Thomas Flinn in the new saw market that I see.)

Go to http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/flinn.htm

Tools for Working Wood has some Flinn saws, but not the 4 1/2: https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/...em/PZ-HS303.XX They can probably special order if you ask nicely.

Thomas Flinn has it's own web site; I don't know if you can buy direct, but you might give it a go if you find something in their catalog that Isn't at hand here. They are https://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/

When I have rough stock to break down, I usually cross cut to rough length, then rip to rough width and finally resaw to the rough thickness; then my planes get to work. In doing this, the job is a bit easier to get through because the saw cuts are no longer than they have to be.


On the other hand, I more often push the on button on my bandsaw and get on with it. I'm not that pure a Neanderthal, I suppose.

[David Bassett]

... If you really want the hand tool route, ....

I recently saw & bookmarked an article by Will Myers' on his blog: Wicked Fast Saw (and How to Make It) (It's based on a vintage frame saw Roy Underhill has.)

I bookmarked it, but honestly I'm not sure I'm ambitious enough I'll ever try it myself. Maybe it'll be what you're looking for though.

[Eric Schubert]

I work in 8/4 stock a lot. I go with a 4 1/2 tpi hand saw from Thomas Flinn. (I'd go with a 4 or 3 1/2 tpi saw but I haven't found one that I can see doing really well. Far as I know, there are no new ones for sale. There are no really good rip handsaws other than the Thomas Flinn in the new saw market that I see.)

Go to http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/flinn.htm

Tools for Working Wood has some Flinn saws, but not the 4 1/2: https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/...em/PZ-HS303.XX They can probably special order if you ask nicely.

Thomas Flinn has it's own web site; I don't know if you can buy direct, but you might give it a go if you find something in their catalog that Isn't at hand here. They are https://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/

When I have rough stock to break down, I usually cross cut to rough length, then rip to rough width and finally resaw to the rough thickness; then my planes get to work. In doing this, the job is a bit easier to get through because the saw cuts are no longer than they have to be.


On the other hand, I more often push the on button on my bandsaw and get on with it. I'm not that pure a Neanderthal, I suppose.

Thanks, James! Great advice, I have no idea why I didn't consider cutting to length first, and then ripping... this is why I like to ask those with experience! Those saws look nice! (And expensive... but we'll see what the cabinet shop might charge.) I see Flinn offer anywhere from 20" to 26" in the 4.5TPI rip variety. What length saw do you recommend? I'm guessing you went with the PAX saw on the site you linked? I've heard some look for the older Disston rip saws, but they seem difficult to find and typically priced to match.

I think there's actually a cabinet shop just up the road from me. Any idea what a shop would typically charge to resaw boards? I imagine they'd charge by the foot, and having a number of these cuts I'm concerned that it may balloon the cost of my project well beyond the cost of a new saw. I'll have to call in the morning, as they're already closed.

[Eric Schubert]

I recently saw & bookmarked an article by Will Myers' on his blog: Wicked Fast Saw (and How to Make It) (It's based on a vintage frame saw Roy Underhill has.)

I bookmarked it, but honestly I'm not sure I'm ambitious enough I'll ever try it myself. Maybe it'll be what you're looking for though.

David, that's really interesting! And WOW can that saw cut quickly. When buying all the hardware, it doesn't exactly save money over buying a western or japanese-style saw, but it's intriguing and looks very doable. With Christmas coming up in only a couple of months, perhaps I can put this project off for a little bit and build a frame saw to resaw these boards.

[Luke Dupont]

I do not recommend a Japanese saw / Ryoba. They're not really good for ripping because the rip teeth wind up being oriented against the grain (hooking up under the fibres) if sawing from above the board at a 45 degree angle. Granted, you can cut smoothly at 90 degrees, but I find it hard to control that way.

A western rip saw, with very large rip teeth would be ideal.

Or better yet, make your own frame saw and rip blade. It's not difficult to make your own saw blade, believe it or not. I did so with no experience, and made a frame saw that cut faster than anything else I owned. Lay out your teeth, file them in, and set them with a screwdriver or a hammer. If you go to far, flatten them back down with two pieces of hard wood or a hammer and anvil. Doesn't have to be perfect. Just be consistent on both sides.

[Steven Mikes]

After doing a few long rip cuts by hand with a 5.5 TPI Disston saw, I purchased a Rikon 10-324 bandsaw and put a ripping blade on it. 'Twas a wise decision.

[Eric Schubert]

I do not recommend a Japanese saw / Ryoba. They're not really good for ripping because the rip teeth wind up being oriented against the grain (hooking up under the fibres) if sawing from above the board at a 45 degree angle. Granted, you can cut smoothly at 90 degrees, but I find it hard to control that way.

A western rip saw, with very large rip teeth would be ideal.

Or better yet, make your own frame saw and rip blade. It's not difficult to make your own saw blade, believe it or not. I did so with no experience, and made a frame saw that cut faster than anything else I owned. Lay out your teeth, file them in, and set them with a screwdriver or a hammer. If you go to far, flatten them back down with two pieces of hard wood or a hammer and anvil. Doesn't have to be perfect. Just be consistent on both sides.

Luke, did you follow any build instructions, or have any reference for setting the saw teeth? The more I see this, the more I'm considering this option. That frame saw that David posted is really fast. I'd be willing to use that for resawing.

After doing a few long rip cuts by hand with a 5.5 TPI Disston saw, I purchased a Rikon 10-324 bandsaw and put a ripping blade on it. 'Twas a wise decision.

Steven, if you'd like to donate a band saw, I'd love to use one! As of right now, I just don't have the coin to put into a machine. I also live in a townhouse, with my woodshop in the basement, so I want to try to keep dust and noise down as much as possible. That's why I ended up going mostly hand tools. Saws still make plenty of dust, but I did build an air cleaner to help with that as much as possible. (Old furnace blower + 1 micron pocket filters) But, mostly, I just can't afford it right now. It's on my list for the future, though, particularly once I have more space for a larger shop.

[Luke Dupont]

Luke, did you follow any build instructions, or have any reference for setting the saw teeth? The more I see this, the more I'm considering this option. That frame saw that David posted is really fast. I'd be willing to use that for resawing.

I made a bow saw with a rotating blade as opposed to a framed rip saw (which I recommend you do, because holding a bowsaw saw at a consistent angle is a little challenging).

I described how I made it along with the blade in this thread: https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....store-quot-saw
Curiously, I didn't get any replies, so maybe no-one was impressed. But, it did cut very quickly. I'd recommend using a slightly thicker and wider blade than I did for more rigidity and reference surface, as mine was on the thin side. The blade can be thinner than typical western saws though because it is under tension.

I used a screw driver and Paul Seller's (or Frank Klautz's, I forgot which) method -- just insert between two teeth and twist one way, go to the next set of teeth and twist the other. If the screwdriver isn't appropriately sized it may want to just slip out though.

I'm going to try using a hammer and a nail to set the teeth next time. As with all things, consistency is key. It doesn't matter what you do: too much or too little. Just do it the same for the whole length of the saw and in both directions, and add or subtract from there.

Also, find good saw files. Don't buy a modern nicholson file. And use a slightly softer steel. I think mine was 1045 or 1065 carbon steel with a spring temper in the mid to high 40's; blue in color.

[Andrew Seemann]

So, just for you, I pulled the 4 1/2 TPI rip saw of the wall (not sure on the brand, probably Superior) and ripped a piece of oak 2 1/4 inches thick. Not sure if it was red or white oak, white would be my guess. It took about 3 minutes to rip the 8 or so inches shown below. That was also the point at which the novelty of ripping by hand started to wear off.

IMG_6010.jpg

Ripping by hand would be possible, but it is slow and a lot of work. I did have difficulty starting the cut with a 4 1/2 TPI saw; for this cut, I started with a finer crosscut saw for about an inch, that made it much easier and safer. Having a sharp saw filled for a rip cut would be essential, and adding wax to the sides definitely helped. One thing to keep in mind about red oak is that the density and hardness can vary from almost like pine all the way to the wood equivalent of reinforced concrete.

If you wanted to get the project done sooner and with less back and shoulder ache, paying the cabinet shop would be a good idea. I'm in pretty good shape for my age, and I can't see doing more than about 15 minutes at at time. I just don't use those specific muscles enough to use them that long.

Also, if you are serious about hand tool woodworking, saving up for a decent 14 inch bandsaw would be a good idea. There are a few folks that do everything by hand, but many of us do the backbreaking stuff by machine. It allows you to concentrate on the parts of woodworking where you get the most benefit from working by hand, like joinery and final surface prep, especially if you are limited in time.

[Eric Schubert]

I made a bow saw with a rotating blade as opposed to a framed rip saw (which I recommend you do, because holding a bowsaw saw at a consistent angle is a little challenging).

I described how I made it along with the blade in this thread: https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....store-quot-saw
Curiously, I didn't get any replies, so maybe no-one was impressed. But, it did cut very quickly. I'd recommend using a slightly thicker and wider blade than I did for more rigidity and reference surface, as mine was on the thin side. The blade can be thinner than typical western saws though because it is under tension.

I used a screw driver and Paul Seller's (or Frank Klautz's, I forgot which) method -- just insert between two teeth and twist one way, go to the next set of teeth and twist the other. If the screwdriver isn't appropriately sized it may want to just slip out though.

I'm going to try using a hammer and a nail to set the teeth next time. As with all things, consistency is key. It doesn't matter what you do: too much or too little. Just do it the same for the whole length of the saw and in both directions, and add or subtract from there.

Also, find good saw files. Don't buy a modern nicholson file. And use a slightly softer steel. I think mine was 1045 or 1065 carbon steel with a spring temper in the mid to high 40's; blue in color.

Thanks, Luke! I'll peruse your thread for more details. Even if I do end up paying the cabinet shop to slice up the oak, it might be a fun project to hang in the shop down the road. I do have a handful of older saw files that I've used to sharpen up a Disston 8TPI. I added a touch of rake and set so it would be a good all-around saw. I have a couple others just like it that I may turn into more of a crosscut saw, adding a little fleam to slice through the grain easier. (I'll do that when the wife is gone and won't get a migraine from the noise...)

So, just for you, I pulled the 4 1/2 TPI rip saw of the wall (not sure on the brand, probably Superior) and ripped a piece of oak 2 1/4 inches thick. Not sure if it was red or white oak, white would be my guess. It took about 3 minutes to rip the 8 or so inches shown below. That was also the point at which the novelty of ripping by hand started to wear off.

IMG_6010.jpg

Ripping by hand would be possible, but it is slow and a lot of work. I did have difficulty starting the cut with a 4 1/2 TPI saw; for this cut, I started with a finer crosscut saw for about an inch, that made it much easier and safer. Having a sharp saw filled for a rip cut would be essential, and adding wax to the sides definitely helped. One thing to keep in mind about red oak is that the density and hardness can vary from almost like pine all the way to the wood equivalent of reinforced concrete.

If you wanted to get the project done sooner and with less back and shoulder ache, paying the cabinet shop would be a good idea. I'm in pretty good shape for my age, and I can't see doing more than about 15 minutes at at time. I just don't use those specific muscles enough to use them that long.

Also, if you are serious about hand tool woodworking, saving up for a decent 14 inch bandsaw would be a good idea. There are a few folks that do everything by hand, but many of us do the backbreaking stuff by machine. It allows you to concentrate on the parts of woodworking where you get the most benefit from working by hand, like joinery and final surface prep, especially if you are limited in time.

Andrew, I love it! Even it was just to demonstrate the challenges of ripping oak by hand, I'm excited I inspired you to pull that 4-1/2TPI ripper off the wall. It does appear it's a challenging prospect. I didn't expect it would be a cakewalk, by any means. And I absolutely plan to call up the cabinet shop to inquire about them doing the work for me. I imagine my back will thank me for it. (Though, I could afford to drop a few pounds in fat and sweat, to be honest.) I think the key factor will be blade length. Long strokes take out lots of wood and make cutting go faster. If I can get my hands on a 3.5-4.5TPI rip frame saw, it may not be as bad, since they seem to have longer blades.

I've run into the same thing before, but with surfacing boards. When I built my bench, I was working with 6"x8" Douglas Fir beams, and flattening/squaring those puppies was quite a task. They're still not perfect, but they're good enough to get things started with my bench. But I put in a lot of sweat equity into that bench using my #7. I imagine this would be similar in effort, though using different muscles.

Still, though........ gonna call the cabinet shop.

[James Waldron]

If you want to look into saw making, you might want to know about "Two Guys in a Garage," aka "TGIAG," at https://www.tgiag.com/index.html for all the components you need to make your own of a wide variety of saws. Some pretty good prices and a good bit of useful information.

[Bill McDermott]

Eric, When I did my hand ripping experiments, I also went for low TPI on a big saw (28" D8 thumbhole at 4 1/2 TPI). I still use it, especially when the piece is too tall for my 14" bandsaw. It's hard to get started. Watch the set. I am going to suggest you keep it as tight as you can. A wide kerf makes the physical work much harder - and it tends to wander around a lot more. Learned that the hard way. Use wedges and wax as needed. These teeth are so large that sharpening is pretty easy. Maybe you can rehab an old saw. Have fun.