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Thread: CNC Program for Maloof Rocker Seat Shaping

  1. #16
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    Jim, Brady and I combined for that seat. The seat is based on my adzed and hand shaped seat. Brady did the scan and then fixed up the result a bit and also mirrored one (better) side to the other.

    As far as pricing goes, best to take that up with Brady and have him quote your scan. Your in good hands with both Brady and Jim, consummate professionals who do the job exceptionally well.

    I can say, I was nervous to outsourcing any part of my projects, but I’m very glad that I did.

    I approach this from the perspective of wanting to make many chairs, but this was cost effective for a short run all the same.
    Last edited by Brian Holcombe; 10-04-2018 at 7:53 PM.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  2. #17
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    It looks very good. I spent a long time carving my seat out from Claro Walnut. I used an angle grinder with a Kutzall disk and then a RO sander. It came out good but a CNC would be much easier.

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Brady Watson View Post
    I think it is relevant to note that there are always multiple paths to arrive at a finished part, but...
    I wasnt trying to intimate in any way that having a professional and deadly accurate scan wasnt beneficial and cost effective for many parts. We too have done in-house probe scans and as Gary stated they are painfully slow (hence expensive), low resolution, and require a lot of post scan cleanup (again expensive). We have used other options as well from Autodesk, and even the Kinect options with similar results but for quick organic shapes that are not reproduction critical they are ok.

    My point was pertaining to the OP's question that it would seem most who are making these style chairs they, and their customers, want "the makers hand" in the part as Im sure these allow for, so it would only be assumed that there would be a fair amount of "meat" left on the part for the maker to have enough material to fare in the final shape and a fairly simple file can be generated quickly to accomplish that if the OP was trying to get past the adze/hogging/grinding step.

    Im also completely with you on the 3D rendering thing. After all, isnt the stat something like 80% of the items in the Ikea catalog have never even been manufactured a single time? But the files have been generated and they sit in the software ready to be churned out when an order comes in. I didnt assume chairs at this level would be rendered but sure.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill George View Post
    Is that your chair seat job? How much was the scanning and of course it needs to be shipped to them, correct?
    See Brian's comment on that post #16. I will only say it was quite reasonable and Brady does good work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Page View Post
    What was the cut time on that? It looks great.
    Too long, Bruce. The challenge with a job like this is that even when you set a fairly high ipm for the toolpath, the machine is limited by the shorter length of the stroke while it rasters the contour. My Stinger II can support 500 ipm, but you can't get there in 17-18" because of the start, acceleration, deceleration and reverse direction for each stroke in that short space. In doing the prototypes I also played with the depth of cut for the roughing passes and had to become a little less aggressive to avoid stressing things. I settled on about a 3/16" depth for each roughing pass with slightly more step-over and that worked out nicely, especially on the hard maple of the "real" chair "butt-parts". Pushing to .25 worked, but just didn't "sound" right, so I opted for more time mitigated slightly by being able to cut a little faster with good chip-load. The cutter stayed cool because of that. Total time for front and back was close to 2.5 hours for each, but that's far less time than Brian would need to do these by hand.

    Of course, my solution for the time of cut was to work on other projects at the same time...this week, it was a nice HDU garden sign and milling some beautiful English Brown Oak for a hall table that I'll hopefully assemble today.

    Honestly, I'm honored to be able to help Brian out with these seats. He does exquisite work and as most know, chairs are some of the hardest things to produce because of the need to combine pleasing style with real functional strength that holds up to natural abuse from even just normal use.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    So I'll once again vouch for the 3D scanning service...'sure made my life easier for this subcontract job!
    Lookin' good Jim. Thanks for posting!

    Prices are dirt cheap and the workmanship is excellent! Ask around...

    About 99% of 3D scans fall into the $150-750 range. A small relief would be towards the lower end, and larger more sophisticated parts (like a rifle stock) are at the higher end. This is for a 3D file, ready to cut or 3D print. If you aren't versed in 3D, I also offer value-added services. Seeing is believing, so I offer the option of video training of your scanned part, shown setup in VCP or Aspire, along with sample toolpaths, and discussion about hold down and best machining strategies for your exact part. Having trained hundreds of shops over the years as a CNC production consultant, I know where people get stuck & confused and can give you the clarity you need to go from art to part. This fulfills the need for economical 1 on 1 Vectric training that many have been hungry for. Not everyone has decades of experience working in 3D - nor do they need to in order to complete their project goals.

    If you are a business, and you want to be able to scan in 3D, you have to ask yourself if it is ultimately worth it. There are very few businesses out there that will get a return on their investment, even if they bought into one of the cheaper scanning systems (<$30k). It is very much like CNC in the sense that everyone thinks you 'just push a button' but the reality is, it involves a lot of skill to do properly, quickly and reliably. It is like starting a whole different business than your CNC work. You don't have to do any of that. Just send the parts and receive your files ready to cut.

    If you just do CNC as a hobby in your garage, a 3D touch probe is probably OK if you are only making things for the Mrs. However, the process is very slow, the inherent hysteresis of the probe prevents it from being accurate and there's a lot of digital sculpting to do after the scan to get something acceptable for CNC routing. I began my 3D venture almost 20yrs ago using a touch probe...and after several hundred million probed points, I'm quick to say that I don't miss the dodgy data that came from it, the time it took to scan or the process of smoothing everything out at the end.

    If you don't have time to tinker and flounder with 3D and just want to make parts and money - feel free to contact me about how I can help you. It's my pleasure to help people who are creatively/technically stifled and show them a clear, easy path to the goal post.
    IBILD High Resolution 3D Scanning Services

  6. #21
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    I am not meaning to seem rude, but I must be mistaken. That does not look like an overly complicated seat to model? This is about a 15min model eyeballing some dimensions. When someone mentions maloof chair, I think of the other image that has a lot of refinements.

    Attachment 394462

    Maloof_SEAT.JPG

  7. #22
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    Thanks for an answer at least folks have a baseline cost, of course there is packing, shipping and return costs to factor in. But if its a valuable item to be duplicated costs may not be a consideration. Wow great website!!!!

    Disclaimer: Yes I may be a hobbyist but I do charge for my work, but I do not own a Camaster.
    Last edited by Bill George; 10-05-2018 at 1:12 PM.
    Retired Guy- Central Iowa.HVAC/R , Cloudray Galvo Fiber , -Windows 10

  8. #23
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    Brad, the complexity rises relative to chair seats being two-sided and often with a contour on the bottom. Brian's seats, for example, have the obvious "butt contour" on the top, but the bottom also features a gradual radius from edge to center that varies front to back. There are some interesting "break points" on the top side, too. Scanning was far easier and faster than modeling. But someone who is truly an expert in modeling and modeling software could certainly do these models from scratch.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  9. #24
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    May 2014
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    Santa Fe, NM
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    Jim - what do you mean by break points?

    I made this Maloof inspired stool in the first group of photos, including the two-sided joinery, leg shaping and carving as a demo for a class several years ago. The leg joinery was done using conventional methods - router and tablesaw. I did the MDF mockup at the bottom for a class last Spring. The seat is a simple Sweep two rails and the joinery is a pocket inside a pocket. The stool was done in EnRoute and the MDF mockup in Aspire.

    IMG_3874.jpg

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    IMG_3603.jpg

  10. #25
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    Mick, by "break points", I was referring to the central ridge and two fading ridges in the contour. Sorry about that...wacko wording that's most certainly incorrect. My bad...

    Very nice stool!
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

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