Festool's Domino -a new tool to join wood

[Frank Pellow]

Seriously,
Either use dowels, or make your own tenons and if you start with the mortise it is real easy to match the tenon...you really don't need a $2500 MultiRouter either (sorry David)

I am pretty excited about the new Domino system, but I suspect that its price point will dampen that excitement. A decent, simple horizontal slot mortiser is anywhere between $2700 (Invicta) and $4500 (Griggio and Fleder), from what I seem to recall. So if you could do loose tenons for a good deal less, I thought: what a great tool. But, after further thought, Festool will probalby be selling this guy for around $2500, and for that I would rahter have the HSM. Oh well. Still, this would be a great job site tool. Think stairs, for example.

Where are you guys getting such a price? My guess (and I have no inside information) is that, if and when Festool sells this in North America, it will sell for an introductory price of between $350 and $425 US. I grant you that that's still a LOT of money but almost an order of magnitude less than the prices that you mentioned

[Frank Pellow]

Isn't that just a loose tenon Frank? Or am I missing something here? I usually do this late at night.

Yes Alan, when you look at it that way, the mechanism within the wood is not new. What is new (well, new as far as I know -Dev might correct me with some ancient, and no doubt heavy, tool from ACME Woodworking Tools Inc ) is the machine to produce the holes. I expect it to make the job of installing tenos (which I like much better than biscuits) fast and accurate.

I will change the word "way" in this thread's title to the word "tool".

[Mark Singer]

I was specifically talking about the Multi Router which I stated as "MultiRouter" and it sells for $2695 and David Marks uses it.



Specifications
* Constructed of heavy aluminum castings.
* Computer controlled machining of all parts.
* Three axis operation: X Axis-8 inches, Y Axis-8 inches, and Z Axis-6 inches.
* Thompson Linear bearing and hardened steel rods.
* Adjustable stop collars.
* Gas cylinder counter balance to offset the weight of the router.
* Removable locator pins on work surface table.
* Chip deflector.
* Work table tilts to a full 45 degrees.
* Accurate scale for height selection of Z axis.
* Designed to accommodate most routers.
Price: $2695.00
Sorry it was $195 more than I stated

[Christian Aufreiter]

I was specifically talking about the Multi Router which I stated as "MultiRouter" and it sells for $2695 and David Marks uses it.



Specifications
* Constructed of heavy aluminum castings.
* Computer controlled machining of all parts.
* Three axis operation: X Axis-8 inches, Y Axis-8 inches, and Z Axis-6 inches.
* Thompson Linear bearing and hardened steel rods.
* Adjustable stop collars.
* Gas cylinder counter balance to offset the weight of the router.
* Removable locator pins on work surface table.
* Chip deflector.
* Work table tilts to a full 45 degrees.
* Accurate scale for height selection of Z axis.
* Designed to accommodate most routers.
Price: $2695.00
Sorry it was $195 more than I stated

WOW! I'm impressed of this attempt of doing a fair comparison. I wonder how useful this Multirouter would be if you want to join two kitchen countertops at a customer's home. While a loose tenon is definitely not a revolutionary joint the Domino opens doors to a new level of applications.

The Domino is said to cost approx EUR 580 (without VAT) here. The Lamello Top 20 sells for ~ EUR 600 (without VAT) in Austria. So I second Bob's estimation.

Regards,

Christian

[Mark Singer]

You can add a slot Mortiser to a MiniMax or Felder jointer/planer for about $1000... that is a nice way to go and for another 8 or 9 thousand you get the rest of the machine

[Paul B. Cresti]

It seems lots of companies come out with new ideas all the time. If we keep changing all the time we will never get any work done and make the tool manufacturers rich

I most definately do not see this as replacing a M&T joint in my shop. Now that I have switched to loose M&T using my MM FS41 with the horizontal mortising attachment, I am set for life. What I have experienced so far is since my styles & rails are now being crosscut via my EFSTS and then mortised on my HSM I am getting perfectly square frames. I no longer worry about shoulders or cheeks off a hair. With a HSM there is no limitation to size or oreintation of either the mortise or the workpiece size. The only limiting factors is the length of travel on your table and the bit size. Since all of my tenons are sized on the planer I can get a perfect fit all the time. Try doing mortise on the end of a 6ft long style on a Multirouter or the Leigh FMT!

The only thing I can see for this Domino is provide another alternative to the Lamello. I have a PC biscuit jointer and it is relagated to joining tops only. It has done a great for that because I realy do not ask much of it. I just do not need much precison at all on a biscuit. Now this is not a bad thing necassarily but leave it to the Germans and they will redesign the wheel if you give them the chance (this is just a joke folks). I just recieved my new Felder Rl 160 dust collector, oh I mean my new MM 160 , and it took 3 months to get here and then another two weeks to get the "special plug" I needed! Talk about annoying. I have a decent amount of Festool stuff pretty much all of my hand held power tools is of the green/black flavor with some exceptions. They make nice tools, very ergonomic, well built.... but eventually the return on your investment just is not there anymore. In this case, especially for my use, it just does not seem to be there (at least for now )

[Mark Singer]

Christian,
The multirouter is a shop tool like a tablesaw....it is not intended to go to jobsites..For joining countertops I use "draw bolts" and a router and a template and it is fast and simple ..

[Mark Singer]

Paul,
I agree ith you, but you know the Domino effect...one person will get one ...post the gloat and there will be Dominios all over SMC.....what was wrong with just simple checkers?

[Frank Pellow]

…
My guess (and I have no inside information) is that, if and when Festool sells this in North America, it will sell for an introductory price of between $350 and $425 US.

...
The Domino is said to cost approx EUR 580 (without VAT) here.
...
Christian

I will do some comparison and some extrapolation from the figure quoted by Christian.

The new TS 55 circular saw lists for 475 Euros on the Festool German site.

The introductory price of the TS 55 in the USA is $395.

If Festool follows the same pricing formula, the Domino will have an introductory price in the USA of $482 which I would round down to $475. So, that is my prediction -$475 US That price is more than my earlier guess, but this time , the price is based on more than just a hunch. We will see how close my prediction is if Festool does, indeed, sell the tool in the USA.

Oh yes, in top of that, you will need to buy Festool's dominos -but I do expect them to be reasonably priced.

[Frank Pellow]

Paul,
I agree ith you, but you know the Domino effect...one person will get one ...post the gloat and there will be Dominios all over SMC.....what was wrong with just simple checkers?

Good one, Mark.

[Christian Aufreiter]

I will do some comparison and some extrapolation from the figure quoted by Christian.

The new TS 55 circular saw lists for 475 Euros on the Festool German site.

The introductory price of the TS 55 in the USA is $395.

If Festool follows the same pricing formula, the Domino will have an introductory price in the USA of $482 which I would round down to $475. So, that is my prediction -$475 US That price is more than my earlier guess, but this time , the price is based on more than just a hunch. We will see how close my prediction is if Festool does, indeed, sell the tool in the USA.

Oh yes, in top of that, you will need to buy Festool's dominos -but I do expect them to be reasonably priced.

Frank, the TS 55 costs EUR 475 (WITH 16 % VAT) in Germany. The Festool rep I talked to mentioned EUR 580 (WITHOUT VAT) for the Domino. As you've already read on the Festool website, the Domino is advertised as an alternative to common dowels and biscuits. The comparable handheld power tools for doweling and "biscuiting" are probably the Mafell Duodowel machine and the Lamello Top 20. As a consequence, I think the Domino should be competitively priced – at least in Austria/Germany. And EUR 580 just seem to be right.

Regards,

Christian

[John Bailey]

Because I travel in Europe quite a bit in the summer, I keep a web-site bookmarked to give me current exchange rates. At the current exchange rate for euro's, the 580 euro figure would be $682.25 US. I would think it costs a bit to get them over here, so my guess is between $750 and $800. I bet Festool is just lovin' all the discussion - nice cheap advertisement.

My opinion, which is worth the proverbial quarter and a cup of coffee, (which, of course, is about $4.25 now) is that this is about the same amount as buying a LN Dovetail saw($125), set of rip and crosscut LN Tenon saws($340), standard set of LN chisels($300) and a LN Tite-Mark III Long marking gauge($119). That adds up to $884. We all know we can even find more expensive hand tools. If those were my only options, I'd go for the hand tools, but that's just personal preference and I'm not a pro, so the speed and efficiency of the Festool doesn't mean as much to me. Others would choose to buy the machine, and I'm sure they would be thrilled with their purchase, and rightfully so.

John

[Lee DeRaud]

Paul,
I agree ith you, but you know the Domino effect...one person will get one ...post the gloat and there will be Dominios all over SMC.....what was wrong with just simple checkers?

They roll off the table during the setup?

[Lee DeRaud]

I was specifically talking about the Multi Router which I stated as "MultiRouter" and it sells for $2695 and David Marks uses it.
Sorry it was $195 more than I stated

At least: I don't think that price includes the pneumatic hold-down widgets in your first picture. (I don't think DM's machine has them, at least I never noticed them on the show and I don't see the air tubing in the other picture.)

[Frank Pellow]

[FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=3]Because I travel in Europe quite a bit in the summer, I keep a web-site bookmarked to give me current exchange rates. At the current exchange rate for euro's, the 580 euro figure would be $682.25 US. I would think it costs a bit to get them over here, so my guess is between $750 and $800. ...

John, that has not been the the way the Festool prices tools for the North American market. Their tools are much cheaper here, and I stand by my preduction.

Would you care to mnake a bet?