Railing design/structure...where to use bolt and/or screws

[laura vianello]

Hello, my next project is a railing of about 3 feet. I have never bolt in a newel post and I am terrified. Currently we have only subfloors (1939) and in the process to get hardwood floors installed. The way I am envisioning the railing will enable me to screw/bolt the wood board to the floor in several pieces instead of just one place (the one under the newel post). Here a brief summary of the layout: one stand alone post, one post attached to the wall full lenght, then the railing between the post as shown in my drawing. No angle, just a straight 3 feet structure. I have attached few inspirational pictures that might explain better what I am trying to accomplish. I might not use the vertical dowels but a stainless steel cabling. Not sure yet. My questions are: 1) is my plan a safe and sound solution? 2) where do I use bolts and screws to make sure everything hold the purpose of the railing (protection from falling over a staircase). The structure is straight, it is not built on stairs (it is more a balcony baluster like the 1st pic). Thanks for any help you might be able to provide.
(Disclosure: both pics were from Pinterest and they had a blog linked but no instruction on how to bolt/screw the 1x4 to the floor).

[Jim Becker]

When the stairway was installed in our addition a number of years ago, the stair maker used heavy lag bolts to do the deed after the GC made sure to have strong, doubled structure behind the mounting points as part of the design. The lags were in countersunk holes that had plugs glued installed after everything was checked.

[Bill Dufour]

I thought railing, that are not handrails, had to be 42" or taller? The slat spacing looks too far apart to be code as well. Ask you building department before you buy any wood.
Bill D.

[Al Launier]

I think that it's supposed to be 36" for home and 42" or 48" for businesses or commercial applications.

As for the actual installation I believe Jim has stated the way to do it: drill & c'bore holes in the 2x4 for a mating plug, pilot drill for the lag bolt, lag bolt, glue the plug into the hole, sand the plug flush with the 2x4.

[andrew whicker]

I used a GRX Pheionix Screw when I did a railing. They don't require a pilot hole like lag bolts. You can buy them at your good construction store places where the local GC's go.

Here is a link on buying in bulk: https://www.ustoolandfastener.com/gr...-50-pcs-32235/

[Gary Ragatz]

Here is something similar in our home (built about 2 years ago). The railing is 3' high and 5' long. On the right, the railing is attached to that oval plate with a lag screw from the back of the plate. The plate is attached to the 2x4 framed half-wall with two lag screws, above and below the railing (I believe it's 3 2x4's at the end of the half-wall). Those screws were countersunk and plugged as Jim described.

The base plate is 1x6, glued and nailed to the subfloor and joists. The balusters are glued and nailed into the decorative molding at the bottom, and glued into holes in the railing at the top. The decorative molding is glued and nailed to the base plate.

On the left, the railing is attached to the newel post with a single lag screw, countersunk and plugged. I'm not 100% sure how the newel post is anchored at the bottom - pretty sure it's screwed to the stair stringer below the level of the subfloor. If you can't do that, I'd guess angle irons and some molding to cover it.

Building code here requires a maximum of 4" between balusters.


Railing.jpg

[laura vianello]

It is 4 center to center which is more than what required. Height will be done by code. My concerns are about the sturdiness of the structure and what to use to anchor it. thanks

[John TenEyck]

Normally you install a half newel against the wall and attach the railing between it and the full newel. The half newel is easily screwed to a stud or blocking behind where the railing and bottom rail will cover the screws. Like so:




Attaching the stand alone newel is the most important thing in the whole process. It has to be very solid and to do that you need to attach it to framing under the floor. If the framing guys didn't provide for that framing you need to add some. I had to tear up a section of the subfloor to add a pair of cripples between the joists when I installed this newel.



The bolt you see is a Sure-Tite newel bolt, and can be used with both solid and hollow newels if a block of solid wood is glued in the bottom. There are other methods; just make sure whatever you use is solid and goes into framing.

Once the newel is installed you install the bottom rail on the floor. Then you can install the railing and balusters.




I used structural lag bolts to attach the handrail to the newels.




Those bolts, and the screws used to attach the bottom rail to the floor, are covered with trim that fits into the dados you see. The trim pieces also control the spacing between the balusters, and are glued in place for a nail and screw free installation.




John

[andrew whicker]

John,

Do you ever have the stand alone post go thru the floor and attach it directly to the joists below?

[Mike Kees]

Andrew when I frame houses we cut holes thru the subfloor and block for newel posts to go thru. Usually Pl 400 and now Grk srews to install the posts. Mike.

[John TenEyck]

John,

Do you ever have the stand alone post go thru the floor and attach it directly to the joists below?

Andrew, in hindsight I could have done it that way on this job had I built the newel with a large tenon on the bottom. And w/o a doubt that gives the strongest connection possible. I've seen some old houses where the newel has a big round tenon on the bottom that goes through the floor and blocking below it that spans between two joists, and is held in place by a big tapered wedge through the tenon. That allows the joint to be tightened, if needed. No matter how it's done, you need a really solid connection on those unsupported newels.

John

[John TenEyck]

Andrew when I frame houses we cut holes thru the subfloor and block for newel posts to go thru. Usually Pl 400 and now Grk srews to install the posts. Mike.

Mike, I wish you had framed the houses I've worked in.

John

[Mark Bolton]

I am with the recommendation to carry the newels through the floor and attach to the framing. landing them on the deck, unless they heavily rely on another newel or a wall, will never be strong enough and likely wont hold up over time. A balustrade is very similar to a chair in that it takes a brutal amount of abuse and racking force over time.

Lay out your newels, cut a hole in the subfloor and assess what you have to do to rigidly affix the newel to the framing. At that point you can do anything you want for the balustrade. It will just get stronger and more rigid with each subsequent component.

[laura vianello]

John, Oh my...this is great!! Although I was hoping to avoid to bolt the stand alone newel post and bolt the base instead. I am wondering if my pictures came through. I could not see them the day after my post. Nobody wants this job where a leave and I cannot put down the hardwood floor if I do not set up the railing. I am trying to find a easy way that my husband and I can do. The half post looks great...did you built it or buy it? Thanks so much for the great info you are sharing!!

[John TenEyck]

John, Oh my...this is great!! Although I was hoping to avoid to bolt the stand alone newel post and bolt the base instead. I am wondering if my pictures came through. I could not see them the day after my post. Nobody wants this job where a leave and I cannot put down the hardwood floor if I do not set up the railing. I am trying to find a easy way that my husband and I can do. The half post looks great...did you built it or buy it? Thanks so much for the great info you are sharing!!

Laura, what did you mean?

I built the entire balustrade, but the same principles apply if you are using store bought. If you can't buy a half newel just cut a whole one in half. Most are only 4 to 5" wide, so they can be cut with two passes on the table saw. Even a 6" one could be cut that way.



You definitely want to anchor the newel directly to the framing under neath. Screwing the base to the newel and then the base to the floor will not be rigid enough or strong enough. Here's a link to the Sure-Tite newel fastening bolts I used. There are other ways of doing it, but these are pretty easy to use and very strong.

https://www.amazon.com/Ascension-Sta...+post+fastener

John