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Thread: Rabbett Problem

  1. #1
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    Rabbett Problem

    Hi all,

    See this block rabbet plane?

    After I used my router table and spiral bit, the surface wasn't as good as I'd like, so I tried this.

    After a few passes, I notice the resulting rabbet was tilted;

    Rabbett 1.jpg


    So, trying to correct it, I had pressed so hard trying to make the rabbet 90*, the bronze cap skewed over:

    Rabbett 3.jpg

    I got it straightened out w help of a large shoulder plane.

    I have two problems. One is uneven rabbet, the other is the skewed cap.

    My question is what am I doing wrong, just uneven pressure on the plane and spinwheel not tight enough?

    Thanks, David

    Oh-the shavings coming up out of the one side and not the other should have alerted me to a problem, huh?
    David
    Confidence: That feeling you get before fully understanding a situation (Anonymous)

  2. #2
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    Perhaps a different plane is needed?
    rebate.jpg
    Rebate in ash..
    Ash peels.jpg
    making peels of Ash..
    Wards 78.jpg
    Sold by Wards, made by Stanley,,,No. 78
    It also is more about HOW you hold the plane. You also have to watch any plane you do use, doesn't make a "stair step" in the corner. iron has to stick out just a hair towards the corner, to clear it.

  3. #3
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    Cutting a rebate/rabbet/rabbett can be a challenge. Experience will help over time.

    If the cap moves from hand pressure, it is either too loose or the user is pressing too hard. My opinion on block planes and their style of adjuster need the cap loosened to adjust the blade depth.

    When first learning to make a rabbet with a plane one needs to pay a lot of attention to insure the work is staying square. If not, make adjustments in how the plane is being held. The blade needs to be set to take an even shaving.

    For me, when something is noticed to be out of square when planing, the plane is tilted toward the high side and then a few shavings should correct the situation. Check and repeat as needed.

    Getting the right tension on the cap is another piece of the puzzle that will become second nature with experience.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  4. #4
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    Hi David

    The block plane you are using is not well suited for rebates (rabbets .. ugh). It lacks vertical registration, or a way to determine vertical orientation. It also lacks a depth stop, which means you need to keep a close eye on the scribed line. All this I am sure you know, also that the better plane to use is a moving filletster, such as a Stanley #78 or Record #778. I usually use a Veritas Skew Rabbet Plane ...



    ... but recently used a Veritas Jack Rabbet Plane to create the rebate/tenon for bread board ends. This is a similar situation to the one you have been in ...



    The resulting rebates were not as perfectly square as I would have liked - an little high at the junction here-and-there (I did not allow the ends to fall below the scribed line).

    To square them up, I use a wide shoulder plane. Its height offer the visual advantage, but even this is not enough without a fence for registration. Consequently, start the cut having set the angle with a square alongside ...



    You can do this with your rabbet block plane as well, but you can appreciate that there is not much vertical to measure against.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  5. #5
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    If your depth of cut is not even side to side, then the rabbet will inevitably become tilted, a few thousandths with every pass. A fenced plane (or using a batten) may help a bit, but there is still not much to register on.

  6. #6
    Rebate plane is a corruption of rabbet plane. Rabbet plane was used in England from the 14th century into the 19th century. Rebate started around 1800 with both terms in use for quite some time. Here in Pennsylvania we still use the older term.

    I agree with Robert that an uneven depth of cut may be causing the problem. However, with a larger plane like Derek recommends, it is much easier to correct the problem even without getting the depth just right. It hurts my hand just thinking of trying to make a rabbet with such a dinky plane.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Mickley View Post
    Rebate plane is a corruption of rabbet plane. Rabbet plane was used in England from the 14th century into the 19th century. Rebate started around 1800 with both terms in use for quite some time. Here in Pennsylvania we still use the older term.

    I agree with Robert that an uneven depth of cut may be causing the problem. However, with a larger plane like Derek recommends, it is much easier to correct the problem even without getting the depth just right. It hurts my hand just thinking of trying to make a rabbet with such a dinky plane.
    Warren,

    With your wealth of knowledge, and the studying of our craft that you have done for the past 40 years or so, of published books, what is your suggestion for an author for a reference work? For example, something like Robert Wearing or Charles Hayward? I'm not asking for myself, but rather as guidance for this and similar questions that arise. It is my thought, that perhaps, too many are looking for a quick solution, whereas a bit of studying and then practice, is the better path.

    Your thoughts?
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  8. #8
    Of the two authors you mention, Hayward seems to have more professional experience and is more tied to traditional techniques. Wearing is more likely to go for more skill avoidance techniques and dilettante mentality.

    In trying to relearn pre-industrial revolution hand tool techniques, we have looked at 18th and 19th century tools, studied the tool marks on 18th century furniture and architecture, looked at tool inventories, account books, and contemporary woodworking texts. And learning to use the tools in a serious way helps us to know what to look for when examining artifacts. A guy who is really making chairs, for example, is going to notice things on a historic chair that a curator will not. A multifaceted approach is best. we can learn from other woodworkers and other cultures and though we often criticize them, videos of of others working are helpful. Sometimes watching a fellow use a clumsy technique helps us articulate why our own is better.

    Nicholson (1812) and Roubo (1769) are most helpful; they both were professional woodworkers in the 18th century. Also helpful are Diderot (1750-1765), Holtzapffel and three 18th century French books on turning.

  9. #9
    While nothing can replace a hands-on tutorial, Planecraft by Hamption & Clifford (1934 & 1950 revised) is the compact book that deals with all kinds of planing techniques from bench planes to joinery planes to spokeshaves and more. It has four chapters dedicated to rabbets, ploughs, combo and multi-plane which are all related in terms of uses and skills.

    Simon

  10. #10
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    Rebate plane is a corruption of rabbet plane. Rabbet plane was used in England from the 14th century into the 19th century. Rebate started around 1800 with both terms in use for quite some time. Here in Pennsylvania we still use the older term.
    Warren, these little bits of information are one of the many things folks enjoy on woodworking forums.

    Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=Warren Mickley;2851646]Of the two authors you mention, Hayward seems to have more professional experience and is more tied to traditional techniques. Wearing is more likely to go for more skill avoidance techniques and dilettante mentality.

    Thanks Warren.

    You make an excellent point about a multi-faceted approach, and I would go a bit further to all, that info that is easy to retrieve via the internet may (should?) play second fiddle to taking the time to read/study/learn what professional craftsmen do. I mentioned the Wearing and Hayward books mostly because of ease of reading.

    For new comers to this forum, Warren, among several others, is a professional, and if you take the time to read/re-read his posts, you'll learn how steeped his methods are in traditional woodworking. His opinion is a very valuable tool.
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  12. #12
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    I'm glad to know what I was trying to do was difficult to do.

    eBay has some offerings-but I'm not at all confident about what I'm looking at for the price.

    I just ran some more specimens through the router table.......not worried about being too precise, as these are for mockup.
    David
    Confidence: That feeling you get before fully understanding a situation (Anonymous)

  13. #13
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    In the original post, David is just cleaning up a rabbet made with a machine. That should be manageable with a block rabbet (now that the challenges are understood).
    If the machine marks are not obvious to the eye, then I might scribble some pencil marks on the surface I am working. That way I can see where I am removing wood and where the marks remain. That helps me keep things square.

    Cutting a rabbet by hand is something different and much more sensitive to the proper tool and technique. You would all love the beautiful terraced walls of my hand cut rabbets.

  14. #14
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    Correct Bill. I had pointed out that it is easy to take the surface out of square with a low block plane, since there is limited referencing available. For repairing out-of-square shoulders, or removing machine marks, the preferred plane is a shoulder plane. Use it with a square to guide the angle at which you push it. What the scribed lines to ensure you do not plane the rebate below this.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill McDermott View Post
    ... You would all love the beautiful terraced walls of my hand cut rabbets.
    The Renaissance Woodworker's "3 Problems Woodworkers Encounter with Rabbet Planes" might help:

    http://www.renaissancewoodworker.com...rabbet-planes/

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