proper setup for cutting crown on a shaper

[andy photenas]

Hello all, I just bought a fair sized shaper that came with a power feeder. I also bought all the bits the guy had with it.
My question is, how do you use a power feeder to cut say 3" tall moldings that look like they cut all of the wood away and leave no place to catch the out feed fence

[Martin Wasner]

Shapers don't really work that way.

You could create a negative of the profile and have that pick up your material after it passes over the cutter. But most profiles for crown would take a stout shaper to hog it off in a single pass if it has any size so it.

Smaller crown where you're basically clipping the corner off of the material is doable with an outboard fence easily.

Really a moulder is the tool of choice for this. Lots of feed rollers, hold down shoes, 15+ hp power spindle, big spindles, and 8000 pounds of mass make for a much better cut.

[Martin Wasner]

You could also leave some material that is square to ride on the fence. Then trim it off. I think I've seen cutters in catalogs to do it that way.

[Dave Cav]

Like Martin said, a shaper isn't necessarily the ideal tool for milling crown, but it can be done. A shaper isn't the ideal tool for running T&G flooring either, but last year my neighbor and I ran a bunch of it. It was a lot of work but we got it done.

To better answer your question, could we get a bit more information?

What kind of shaper? Make, model, HP?
What kind of power feeder?
What was the previous owner using the shaper for?
What kind of cutters? Brazed carbide, insert, loose knife, etc? Pictures?
What kind of fence?
Most importantly, what's your experience level running a shaper? Despite the fact that I have two Delta HD shapers, a feeder and three fences, I still consider myself very much a novice when it comes to running anything on a shaper and if it's anything but a quick run, it requires considerable thought and setup. A shaper is very much NOT a big router table.

Another question is did you get this shaper for a specific job (running a bunch of crown), or did you get the shaper, and running crown is just one of the many things you might consider doing? If the former, you might consider looking for a used moulder like a Woodmaster or a W&H. When I built my house recently I committed to running all the base, door and window trim in mostly stain grade alder with the base in paint grade poplar. I found a used Woodmaster and had some knives ground and ran all the trim a whole lot faster and better than I possibly could have on the shaper.

[Mel Fulks]

Yeah, shaper is not the best for crown. Some who have to use Georgia Pacific stuff would say moulders are worse.

[andy photenas]

The machine is a mini max T3 3 hp has a sliding table on the back side and has a standard split fence on it. The powerfeeder is very old and made by powermatic with a baldor motor 1/2 hp but its so huge i cant lift the thing alone.
I got the machine to have a raised panel cutter setup . i run 2 small shapers 1 1/2 hp for cope and stile bits. The hope is no setup after i get things setup for the rest of the job.
That said i nearly always make molding for my kitchens in shop but i cant figure a safe easy way to do so.
The machine i bought came with a lot of tooling. some of the bits are so heavy and over 3" high. I think they make crowns but i cant seem to find any good source for using those bits safely.

[Mark Bolton]

We have run some crown on our shapers and have always done as martin mentions and built a negative support of the profile on the outfeed side. It doesnt need to be a perfect negative of the profile though that would be nice if you could do it but just two or three well placed supports will allow you to run it without reducing your life expectancy buy double digits. Its by no means a solution for running material in quantity. Even a W&H or shop fox clone (limited by width) is a more sane solution.

Having access to a CNC would allow you to run a fully matched negative profile support But a simple shop made fence with 3 bars of support would get you through a short run.

[Mark Bolton]

That said i nearly always make molding for my kitchens in shop but i cant figure a safe easy way to do so.

Something to keep in mind is that even if you have the tooling and machinery, unless your in some species/grain match/high end specific application, there is no profit in making small mouldings. Most small kitchen mouldings that can be bought off the shelf can be had for less than 2$ a foot in most species. A kitchen with 50' of molding cant possibly be run in house for $100. That would mean running 100' of trim in an hour or and hour and fifteen minutes.

Any crown you'd run on the shaper or in-house period should be an odd ball or a match job that is paying for your time.

[Bradley Gray]

I have a W&H moulder that I use occasionally to make matching crowns. Super easy to set up but slow. Mark is absolutely correct - if you can buy the profile in the species you need you are miles ahead.

[johnny means]

Can anyone explain why a shaper is not ideal for crown moulding? Essentially, it's a cutter on a spindle just like a moulder.

[brent stanley]

I've run miles of 4" crown on a shaper and it can be done to good quality and safely, but I still feel the moulder is the better machine for the job.....but ya gotta use what ya got.

I usually just do it right up against the fence with a couple of shoes made out of softer material on the outboard fence to make sure it has a few contact points on the outboard fence. Then the back cuts are just done on the table saw.

[Wayne Lomman]

Are your fences independently adjustable? If so, set it up so that the out feed fence is in line with the moulded face. Add a block for other support if required as others have already said. It depends on the exact profile as to whether the power feeder should work in the horizontal or vertical planes.

Shapers are fine for doing this within their limitations. To me the only problem is that this one is a bit under done to be driving a 3" cut. Cheers

[Martin Wasner]

Can anyone explain why a shaper is not ideal for crown moulding? Essentially, it's a cutter on a spindle just like a moulder.

Build is huge. Orientation of feed wheels pushes material away from the cutter typically on a moulder, not into it. Think of thicknesser versus face planing. Spindle size

It's "a" spindle. Singular. Most moulders outside of the little W&H or Belwith style are five heads or more. Rip a skip planed blank ¼ oversized and finished product comes out the other end in a single pass. Just cutting the profile is one of a bunch of operations that need to take place. Thicknessing, the main profile, back bevels, it's a profile that can be flipped, it's nice to have a orientation marker in the back as well so the run is all flipped the same way on installation.

Most moulders have some straightening ability as well. Your first head works like a jointer. Straightlining material doesn't guarantee straight material if it's got tension in it, which most does.

[Joe Calhoon]

Shaper is good for short custom runs of crown, tall baseboard and other profiles. Custom is the key word meaning for example a historic profile not available off the shelf or out of material not available in stock moldings. Short run is also key because more than a couple hundred lineal feet it is usually more economical if your time is worth anything to go to a multi head moulder.
Tilting shaft on the shaper is also good for matching custom profiles without having a knife ground. Again only for short runs. Having a feeder like the DC 40 that tilts quickly makes vertical work on the shaper easier.
I finally picked up a W&H for some of this work but still find the shaper faster for straight work as the W&H usually requires 2 passes and a little fussy to set up. The W&H shines though for curved work with the profile in the face.

[Peter Quinn]

I've had to make lots of crown on a shaper, its not usually my preferred option if a molder is available, but on short runs or at busy times I've done it. Setting up a 5 head molder can take longer than a short run is worth. I make a really stout back fence just a hair shorter than the crown (I've even just squared up a large fir beam for this) , so the blanks are held captive between back fence and primary fence, run the feeder from above pushing forward, I leave "ears" of at least 1/2" above and below the knife line that ride the fence, put a kerf at the top and bottom knife line to avoid burning, cut these off when making the back cuts later. I take multiple passes even with something like a t-130 thats 11 HP, so you're looking at maybe 4 passes on a small shaper for best quality and long term survival of the machines bearings!