Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 31

Thread: Quiet dust collection?

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Helensburgh, Australia
    Posts
    2,263
    I have no intention of working with any bags because sooner or later some unfortunate soul has to remove them, clean them and replace them. Also the downtime to do all that must be considerable or if it is done out of production hours someone has to be paid to do it.
    Chris

    Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Oregon, Wisconsin
    Posts
    323
    Your reasons not to use them are the reasons I do! Faster and easier to clean than pleated filters.

    I made my claims and am done. If you want a quiet dust collector, I showed you the quietiest I know of. If you know of something more quiet, please share.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Central WI
    Posts
    5,365
    I've got bags and cartridges and the benefit to cartridges is the small footprint but they are harder to clean and I'd argue the real world filtration is similar. Bang the bags with a broom or shake them and they are good to go for years of hobby use. My dylos gives similar readings with both types.

    Greg, looking at the Nederman info, it looks like they run a 1750 rpm motor but I can't tell if direct or belt drive. The cfm numbers are listed at fairly low pressure and the inlet size is large, 10" on the 5 hp unit and 12" on the 7.5. Do you have a fan curve or any info regarding how they deliver at higher pressure? Eliminating the cyclone saves 3-5" sp but the smaller diameter pipe and small machine ports on hobby machines still add significant resistance. It would be interesting to see their impeller design and numbers up to 12" sp. Dave

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by David Kumm View Post
    Bang the bags with a broom or shake them and they are good to go for years of hobby use. My dylos gives similar readings with both types.
    David can I ask what readings the Dylos gives you when you are banging the dust bags to shake the dust out? I'm assuming it is in place when you are doing it.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Central WI
    Posts
    5,365
    Peter, I clean bags and cartridges in place so the dust that is released to the shop is from whatever has settled on the outside which isn't horrible. The cartridges seem to create the bigger problem as I hit them with compressed air and when I hit them I also hit the walls, ceiling, shelves and other places that dust has settled. The bags just drop some of the inner cake and some dust that has attached to the outside but I'd argue the cartridges make a bigger mess. I can't put numbers to it as the area of the two types are so different. Those with a Dylos know that even with a great system, the numbers can jump from 100-5000 when any kind of sanding is done and sometimes when shaping or sawing. Certain machines are just hard to get enough cfm at high enough velocity to pull the dust envelope into the machine quickly. In my world it is the dust that doesn't get through the filters first that I fear most. You can have the greatest filtration specs but if you breathe the dust created at the machine before it is pulled into the system your lungs are toast. Pressure drop as well as filtration efficiency created by the filters should also be a factor when deciding what works in a system. Dave

  6. #21
    The Laguna Pflux is very quiet compared to my typical dust collector.... I am very impressed by what they did with the thing.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Central WI
    Posts
    5,365
    John, it looks like Laguna has added some performance charts for each of their machines. Nothing regarding separation but good info related to cfm under pressure. They say their impellers are of a radial design and quite large diameter -15.5" on their 3 hp motor which seems more in line with a curved blade impeller size. A radial blade is generally smaller diameter since it requires a higher amp draw per cfm. The pressure drop of the filter and cyclone design might account for it but I'm questioning whether the impeller is truly a radial. My 15.75" radial needs a 7.5 hp motor to handle it. Glad to see they are running curves though. Dave

  8. #23
    Thanks for the reply David.

  9. #24
    Hello all, i just stumbled across this thread and thought I would give you my assessment of the machine. I do sell them through the North Carolina Furniture School, and I do have a working relationship with Harvey, but I would like to give that some context. Harvey is the manufacturing company that makes most of the machines we know and use today including Laguna, Grizzly, many products for Jet and Powermatic and several other brands you would know. They are time tested and proven by all of us. Throughout Europe and Asia, they sell a premium tier of machines under the Harvey name. These machines compete with premium European industrial machines like Martin and Altendorf. Through a small network of dealers, they have begun offering them in the U.S. I have come to know the owner of Harvey and many of their employees. They are good people, running a top notch company. In recent years they have hired young, creative talent who are bringing fresh ideas to the table and the Gyro Air is one of those ideas.

    I beta tested this machine in Shanghai a few years ago and was impressed by it for several reasons. From the ground up it is a new approach to collecting particulate. It genuinely is more quiet, built like a tank, rolls around, and variable speed. Everything is heavy gauge precision-welded steel and the motor and controls are industrial grade inverted 3phase Siemens. The intake is a heavy duty turbine impeller that forces air through a pair of static turbine tubes which accelerate the air, and force it into independent separators for heavy and fine particulate which drop into separate internal bins. The cleaned air then passes through a pair of Hepa filters for recirculation into the shop - so it acts as a secondary ambient air filter. With the exception of the steel impeller, there are no moving parts and therefore no maintenance. As far as the decibel rating, keep in mind that amplitude is roughly doubled by every 10 dba increase - so that is MUCH more significant than you might realize. Furthermore, the noise rating is just the machine and when hard-piped into a shop the noise is reduced. You can literally have a conversation at normal talking volume next to it while running. Compared to my large cyclone (which does move more air) it is a dream.

    My primary interest in the machine was for woodturning. I can run it for 8 hours a day, right beside my lathe, and I don't feel hearing fatigue at the end of the day. I also really like the ability to move is around or lock it in place with the height-adjustable casters.

    As far as bin size, I was reluctant about that also, but pleasantly surprised by three things: it holds 32 gallons, or put another way, 2 gallons more than my shop trash cans. Secondly (and possibly more important to me) the bins are so easy to empty, I do not dread emptying it out more often than my cyclone and therefore gets used and emptied much more often. Thirdly, the Siemens controller automatically triggers an alarm with a flashing light when the bins are close to full, then it shuts them off so the machine cannot overfill.

    One last and critical difference between these machines and the traditional wood particulate collectors we are all familiar with is ability to collect welding dust, metal fabrication debris, graphite, plastics, etc. So for CNC applications it is amazing.

    In the coming months they are rolling out two larger size machines for industrial applications and I understand that they are exploring possibilities for a smaller machine.

    It's a solid machine in every way, built in excess of what most people would ever need or ask of it. Toyota agrees and have begun replacing their dust collection systems in factories worldwide with these units - which is a singing endorsement of the build quality and systems reliability.

    I invite anyone interested to come test drive one at our shop, call anytime.
    Stuart Kent
    Founding Director of the North Carolina Furniture School
    Robust, Rikon, Harvey, & Easy Wood Tools Dealer
    252-916-8226

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Central WI
    Posts
    5,365
    Stuart, great information. It is easy to discount manufacturers claims in the DC business so it is good to have some real world experience. Does Harvey publish a fan curve? The acceleration of the air explains how the higher pressure readings are accomplished. Encourage Harvey to upsize the unit somewhat as it is a little small for woodworkers with larger machines. A DC that tops out at closer to 2000 cfm would handle large shapers, planers, and sanders while still pulling enough cfm through small ports. It would seem to me that the market for a 5-6K larger machine would be at least as good as the 4K machine serving lower end machines. Dave

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by David Kumm View Post
    Stuart, great information. It is easy to discount manufacturers claims in the DC business so it is good to have some real world experience. Does Harvey publish a fan curve? The acceleration of the air explains how the higher pressure readings are accomplished. Encourage Harvey to upsize the unit somewhat as it is a little small for woodworkers with larger machines. A DC that tops out at closer to 2000 cfm would handle large shapers, planers, and sanders while still pulling enough cfm through small ports. It would seem to me that the market for a 5-6K larger machine would be at least as good as the 4K machine serving lower end machines. Dave
    I'll check on the fan curve for you. i think you'd be surprised, I have hooked it up to my Powermatic 221 and it kept up respectably. They are coming out with two larger models, I should have more information on them soon.
    Stuart Kent
    Founding Director of the North Carolina Furniture School
    Robust, Rikon, Harvey, & Easy Wood Tools Dealer
    252-916-8226

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Central WI
    Posts
    5,365
    I'm looking forward to more models and information. The parts schematic seems to show a traditional radial impeller that somehow gets juiced up to move more air under pressure with less amperage. Radial blowers are loud so there must be some insulation too. I compared the Cincinnati fan curves for 12" radial impellers and this unit beats those numbers so they are doing something different. It will be interesting. Dave

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    NW Indiana
    Posts
    2,405
    I just looked at the performance data on the Pflux and it seems very credible. I applaud any dust collector mfg that posts good data on their machines. There are too many exaggerated claims or no data for dust collectors.

    If I wanted a portable dust collector, I would choose the Pflux 3.

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    I have no intention of working with any bags because sooner or later some unfortunate soul has to remove them, clean them and replace them. Also the downtime to do all that must be considerable or if it is done out of production hours someone has to be paid to do it.
    Most industrial systems use bags. The maintenance is lower, and they don't need removal for anything other than replacement.

    With a cyclone in front of a baghouse there's almost nothing in there too clean out.

    Bags respond better to cleaning than cartridges. They can be shook or use a pulse to clean. You can't shake a cartridge, and a pulse doesn't do much.

    I would like to see a spinning stream of air used to clean cartridge filters from the inside out. I haven't seen that one I think it would be extremely effective, but might be a maintenance nightmare. Expensive to operate as well dumping that much compressed air.

    Side question: Is it possible to have too much filter area? Does there need to be a certain amount of back pressure to keep the fan from from drawing too much power?

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Central WI
    Posts
    5,365
    Martin, it depends on the system but some impellers are designed to never overamp the motor. Commercial systems should be designed so the pipe, separation, and filters are calculated so changing one can screw up the math. All filters are rated for a range of cfm or velocity per sq ft. My concern with too much oversizing would be just that most filters depend somewhat on the dust cake formed inside that helps with filtration. Too little pressure might affect the formation of that and reduce the efficiency somewhat. Above my pay grade to know the real answer. Cartridges are best when you can have an outside to inside flow and a pulse jet inside it but that isn't how most hobby types are built. I don't have the room in the home shop for bags so I run four Wynn Nano cartridges good for 2400 cfm. They are great until I overfill a bin and then they are a PITA to clean. They do surface load and have tight pleats so stuff does come free but cleaning bags is way easier. Dave

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •