Member
That is a problem easy to handle without offending any potential customers: Suspend selling any PMV11 goods until the steel delivery is received. The communication and delay problems the OP reports arose only because something was oversold. When the existing inventory goes below certain pre-set level, the system will flag the controller who can then decide to stop the sales or not.Originally Posted by Tony Wilkins
Simon
Member
When I placed my order, I was fully aware of a long delay... It's not the end of the World and I can live with that. Let's don't forget that there is always an option to cancel or simply do not place your order if you are not willing to wait. The ETA dates are listed, and I am sure that Lee Valley is trying to do everything to meet their commitments in order to satisfy their customers. This situation doesn't really bother me, but this is just my point of view.
Last edited by Wojciech Tryc; 09-19-2018 at 8:23 AM.
Member
Was your situation the same as the OP's?
"This was the 3rd or 4th time it's been pushed back, and now I seriously wonder if it will even arrive this calendar year."
Of course, a long delay was acceptable if you knew about it and were prepared to wait for it. Was the OP fully aware of the repeated push-backs that would happen when he placed his order? I doubt it.
Simon
Contributor
Without entering into any of the off topic discussions I would submit the following as an answer to the OP's original question- SUPPLY AND DEMAND. FWIW-I too am waiting for a 1" PMV 11 chisel.
Contributor
Its irresponsible to take orders that you know you can't deliver on. This is atypical of LV from my experience. It does seem that improvements in communication are necessary though, and much improvement in delivery forecasting.
Contributor
"Ya pays yer money, ya takes yer chances" Not like you people haven't seen this issue before, is it? And why isn't Derek on this thread, to defend that company? Hmmm.
Member
And why would you need to make a comment like that about another forum member?
Contributor
Ran out of Popcorn.
Member
Because he is at odds with Derek, and he in general does not like people going after new tools. In his world, Stanley, Record, Preston, and all vintage tools should be the only tools woodworkers should buy and use.
I like his independent way of woodworking and sharing, but he has been becoming a little close-minded (lately?), mirroring Paul Sellers's "My way or high way" attitude. He condemns the use of jigs, like shooting boards, but himself is a fan of the miterbox which others can argue is a crutch too. He often looks down on new products such as the new Veritas pocket plane, wondering why people would spend money on it, blah blah blah.
He takes things too personal, clouding his objectivity and judgment, if you ask me.
Simon
Last edited by Simon MacGowen; 09-19-2018 at 11:35 AM.
Guest
Possibly, but not in the traditional meaning I believe you have in mind. I would imagine it's shrinking demand causing even longer delays with the contract supplier as they will only process orders of a certain minimum size. If demand shrinks enough, PM-V11 products could become functionally unavailable as the very long waiting times will cause almost all backorders to cancel and then a cycle ensues in which a minimum order quantity can never be hit, or the cash outlay for the retailer is too high for the minimum run vs. the orders it can fill. With waiting times measured in months rather than a few weeks, this scenario might be starting to play out, and this is regardless of whether the company warned about it or not. I guess you might wait five months for a woodworking chisel as almost an afterthought assuming you have others to work with in the interim. It's still not good, especially when the 'newness' of it all begins to peter out.
Every retailer that goes out of house with a specially branded or sourced product runs this risk. Every one.
In the situation that's being described, delivery times will actually shorten to the end customer when overall demand goes up since the retailer is making minimum order size with its manufacturer/supplier more rapidly and more frequently. If demand is steady and high enough, the supplier would go into more or less continuous production on behalf of the retailer but that's not likely to happen given the nature of the product and raw material we're discussing here.
I doubt demand for PM-V11 product is stronger today than when first introduced. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. So L-V's problem is having to place the same large order(s) for steel against shrinking demand. You figure out how that plays out. If you love the stuff, I'd order all you can stand and I'd order it now.
Last edited by Charles Guest; 09-19-2018 at 5:00 PM.
Contributor
Lee Valley has never taken my money for an order that they couldn't ship immediately. That's how they work. The only grey area is when a part (like a plane blade) is not a separate item from a sales perspective.
To reiterate, you can only purchase what they have in stock. By purchase I mean part with your money in return for some item.
Pushing back the delivery date of a sub-part is really what this thread is all about.
"If you have all your fingers, you can convert to Metric"
Member
Lee Valley does an excellent job of noting on their website availability of products and has never charged my card for any items that were not in stock. Rob Lee has made mention of delay issues caused by wood species, and as of late, another issue MAY be the state of flux the steel industry is in.
If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.
Guest
As others may have mentioned, it's against the law to charge a credit or debit card if the product is not ready to ship.
Member
One possibility is that Lee Valley is a victim of their own high standards. They could have received a shipment of metal and they found it wasn't up to snuff. There's a number of reasons they could have been blindsided and unable to ship a product when they thought they could.
-Tom
[OP]
Member
The issue is not charging my card. Of course they do an excellent job of noting what isn't in stock. But they do a terrible job of estimating when it will be back in stock. I was told in July that delivery would be August. Then in August I was told September. Now in September I am being told November. And, again, when I say "I was told" I mean "I was not told." I found out on my own by logging into the site and seeing my order status. I'd rather the delivery date say "Unknown" than repeatedly being given a shipping date, which is never the shipping date.
Again, I don't want to come across as being irrationally harsh because I am genuinely grateful for what Lee Valley offers, but I have to ask what the heck is going on? Because this issue has happened every single time I've ordered something with PM-V11. Maybe I just ran into bad luck with the timing of my orders. I understand Lee Valley cannot control all variables, I understand supply and demand. What I do not understand is why they haven't figured out a better way to inform customers about this sort of thing, like perhaps put a little message on their site to explain what's happening on their end. Saying Rob Lee has mentioned X, Y, Z doesn't help with people like me who never knew Rob Lee has mentioned X, Y, Z or where he mentioned it. Lee Valley is a respectable business, not a secret club.
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