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Thread: Why does Lee Valley have problems delivering PM-V11 products on time?

  1. #46
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    DuBois, PA
    Posts
    1,897
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Fort View Post
    The issue is not charging my card. Of course they do an excellent job of noting what isn't in stock. But they do a terrible job of estimating when it will be back in stock. I was told in July that delivery would be August. Then in August I was told September. Now in September I am being told November. And, again, when I say "I was told" I mean "I was not told." I found out on my own by logging into the site and seeing my order status. I'd rather the delivery date say "Unknown" than repeatedly being given a shipping date, which is never the shipping date.

    Again, I don't want to come across as being irrationally harsh because I am genuinely grateful for what Lee Valley offers, but I have to ask what the heck is going on? Because this issue has happened every single time I've ordered something with PM-V11. Maybe I just ran into bad luck with the timing of my orders. I understand Lee Valley cannot control all variables, I understand supply and demand. What I do not understand is why they haven't figured out a better way to inform customers about this sort of thing, like perhaps put a little message on their site to explain what's happening on their end. Saying Rob Lee has mentioned X, Y, Z doesn't help with people like me who never knew Rob Lee has mentioned X, Y, Z or where he mentioned it. Lee Valley is a respectable business, not a secret club.
    Quite simply, if I were in your shoes, I would explore another product or vendor, for what will do the job at hand. Sharp is sharp!
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  2. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Zaffuto View Post
    Quite simply, if I were in your shoes, I would explore another product or vendor, for what will do the job at hand. Sharp is sharp!
    Quite simply, you are saying good customer communication does not matter. I hope Lee Valley is not listening to you for advice.

    Simon

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    DuBois, PA
    Posts
    1,897
    Must be something goingvaround! I have never seen SMC so argumentative!
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Broadview Heights, OH
    Posts
    711
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon MacGowen View Post
    Because he is at odds with Derek, and he in general does not like people going after new tools. In his world, Stanley, Record, Preston, and all vintage tools should be the only tools woodworkers should buy and use.

    Simon
    Unless of course they are Aldi Chisels. He's up in that like white on rice!

    My perspective on this is easy. Every company has swings and misses. This is likely one. Being carpy on the interwebs about it doesn't make it get better. A PM to Rob who is a member here and owns the company would seem to me to be the first recourse if you think your voice isn't being heard.

    Maybe try the PM method and see what happens.

    Pete

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    DuBois, PA
    Posts
    1,897
    Something in the air today Pete!
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    New England area
    Posts
    588
    To the OP: You've done all that could be expected. I'd learn to love another tool steel if I were you.

  7. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Zaffuto View Post
    Quite simply, if I were in your shoes, I would explore another product or vendor, for what will do the job at hand. Sharp is sharp!
    I began exploring in the previous century, but thanks. I have enough chisels in my shop that can do any job. I prefer Lee Valley over all other Western chisels.

  8. #53
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    350
    Something is in the air every single day (or thread) Tony. These pot shots at other members are not uncommon.

  9. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Fort View Post
    Love the company and its tools, but I've never ordered any item with a PM-V11 blade that didn't arrive extremely late. Just found out that a chisel I ordered in July is not expected to ship until November. This was the 3rd or 4th time it's been pushed back, and now I seriously wonder if it will even arrive this calendar year.

    Anyone know what's going on?
    Hi Adam -

    Please accept my apologies for the delay on the 1" chisel. Over the past several months we have been facing a number of challenges in our manufacturing operation.

    First and foremost - we had the previously mentioned sudden requirement to switch woods, which caused a backlog in a large portion of the product line. We have now solved that problem, but as we were accumulating the backlog, our operation hit full capacity (and remains there) making it difficult to get out of the hole. Not only do we have physical space limitations, but have now maxed out the power supply to the building. To really add to the fun - for the past year or more we have not been able to fill all available open positions (this is a government town , not a manufacturing one....).

    We have been working with a consulting firm to increase our productivity given current constraints - working smarter, and not necessarily harder (though we are doing that too). One of the ways we are doing this is by spending more time running product, and less time doing machine set-ups (a complex machine set-up, and we have a lot of them, can take up to two days). This means intervals between production runs gets longer, though quantities are higher when we do run them. Running something like chisels means a larger run of each size....and ultimately a longer time to get any single size back on track. Larger lot sizes also make for much more work in process, as we have to wait for all component parts to be finished before an assembly run.

    PM-V11 is a custom steel, and not a stock item. We have to order many months in advance of our requirement (I believe about 6) and even then, are subject to getting bumped by a larger customer needing a different product. We have to order a complete mill run of steel, and can only run a couple of formats per run (a thickness of plate, or a cross section of bar or rod).

    Throwing new product into the mix - demand patterns can change quickly, and strain resources as well.

    So - we have some rapidly changing conditions in a system that can just not respond quickly. Nor, at this time, can we effectively scale for excess capacity. These are all "good" problems to have - in that they are related to growth. They are all "bad" problems with respect to being able to respond quickly.

    The situation we have now has had our full attention for several months, and we are in the process of addressing it for the forseeable future. To relieve much of the pressure, we have been sitting on new product releases so as not to stretch our resources further. At the same time - we can't hold off on that forever either. We have not been advertising nor promoting much of the line at all for over a year now.

    We are confident we will be back to our regular performance shortly. We meet weekly with staff to review production status and backlog burn-down rate - and there is light at the end of what has been a longer tunnel than we would have liked.

    Cheers -

    Rob

  10. #55
    Rob, thank you so much for your reply. I wish you the best in getting things in order and thank you also for making such great tools.

  11. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Lee View Post
    Hi Adam -

    Please accept my apologies for the delay on the 1" chisel. Over the past several months we have been facing a number of challenges in our manufacturing operation.

    First and foremost - we had the previously mentioned sudden requirement to switch woods, which caused a backlog in a large portion of the product line. We have now solved that problem, but as we were accumulating the backlog, our operation hit full capacity (and remains there) making it difficult to get out of the hole. Not only do we have physical space limitations, but have now maxed out the power supply to the building. To really add to the fun - for the past year or more we have not been able to fill all available open positions (this is a government town , not a manufacturing one....).

    We have been working with a consulting firm to increase our productivity given current constraints - working smarter, and not necessarily harder (though we are doing that too). One of the ways we are doing this is by spending more time running product, and less time doing machine set-ups (a complex machine set-up, and we have a lot of them, can take up to two days). This means intervals between production runs gets longer, though quantities are higher when we do run them. Running something like chisels means a larger run of each size....and ultimately a longer time to get any single size back on track. Larger lot sizes also make for much more work in process, as we have to wait for all component parts to be finished before an assembly run.

    PM-V11 is a custom steel, and not a stock item. We have to order many months in advance of our requirement (I believe about 6) and even then, are subject to getting bumped by a larger customer needing a different product. We have to order a complete mill run of steel, and can only run a couple of formats per run (a thickness of plate, or a cross section of bar or rod).

    Throwing new product into the mix - demand patterns can change quickly, and strain resources as well.

    So - we have some rapidly changing conditions in a system that can just not respond quickly. Nor, at this time, can we effectively scale for excess capacity. These are all "good" problems to have - in that they are related to growth. They are all "bad" problems with respect to being able to respond quickly.

    The situation we have now has had our full attention for several months, and we are in the process of addressing it for the forseeable future. To relieve much of the pressure, we have been sitting on new product releases so as not to stretch our resources further. At the same time - we can't hold off on that forever either. We have not been advertising nor promoting much of the line at all for over a year now.

    We are confident we will be back to our regular performance shortly. We meet weekly with staff to review production status and backlog burn-down rate - and there is light at the end of what has been a longer tunnel than we would have liked.

    Cheers -

    Rob
    Have we seen another company (public or private) that is as open and transparent with its internal challenges as Lee Valley?

    If there is anything in the air, it is that we have witnessed a vendor that is willing to hear feedback, positive or negative, from its customers, and respond to them in a sincere manner. Covering for a vendor's shortcomings may be done with good intentions, but it hurts the vendor in the long term.

    Simon

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    LA & SC neither one is Cali
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    9,447
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Guest View Post
    As others may have mentioned, it's against the law to charge a credit or debit card if the product is not ready to ship.
    What "law" would that be...

    It isn't federal law nor the law in any state I practice in.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Southwest Virginia
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    277
    Quote Originally Posted by Van Huskey View Post
    What "law" would that be...

    It isn't federal law nor the law in any state I practice in.
    I've never heard of that either. There are lots of companies running illegal operations if that were true.

  14. #59
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    New England area
    Posts
    588
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Lester View Post
    I've never heard of that either. There are lots of companies running illegal operations if that were true.
    True about the legal part (thanks for the correction) but it's against Visa and MC regs for a merchant to charge before shipping unless they notify you at the time of the order.

    I don't know if LV is doing this, I hope not, but if they are I guess they're using customer credit card orders as short-term line of credit.

    I'll leave it to regular customers of theirs to decide if they're cool with it. I haven't bought from them in quite some time and what I bought was not on backorder.
    Last edited by Charles Guest; 09-20-2018 at 6:41 AM.

  15. #60
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Johannesburg, South Africa
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    1,076
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Guest View Post
    I don't know if LV is doing this, I hope not, but if they are I guess they're using customer credit card orders as short-term line of credit.

    I'll leave it to regular customers of theirs to decide if they're cool with it. I haven't bought from them in quite some time and what I bought was not on backorder.
    Refer to my previous post. I'll repeat for the lazy readers, LEE VALLEY WILL NOT SELL YOU SOMETHING THEY CAN NOT SHIP ALMOST IMMEDIATELY.
    "If you have all your fingers, you can convert to Metric"

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