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Thread: Why does Lee Valley have problems delivering PM-V11 products on time?

  1. #1

    Why does Lee Valley have problems delivering PM-V11 products on time?

    Love the company and its tools, but I've never ordered any item with a PM-V11 blade that didn't arrive extremely late. Just found out that a chisel I ordered in July is not expected to ship until November. This was the 3rd or 4th time it's been pushed back, and now I seriously wonder if it will even arrive this calendar year.

    Anyone know what's going on?

  2. #2
    That's an unfortunate circumstance.

    I can say that I've purchased a fair amount of PM-V11 product in the past couple years, much of it listed as out of stock when I placed the order. I don't think anything I've backordered came in later than the website's "estimated blah blah" time though.

    I'd guess that LV customer service would be more than willing to cancel the order and refund if you didn't want to wait. That wouldn't get you the chisel, but it'd get the cash back into your pocket until they have some in stock.

  3. #3
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    The chisel has a torrefied handle, you don't say which other products you're talking about, but I'm guessing they also have handles. Changes in regulations (CITES?) caught LV off guard and switching to torrefied maple in production quantities has taken them longer than hoped and left them with a supply hole they are still digging out of. (This has been discussed here, with LV participation, since at least last spring.)

  4. #4
    Last year I ordered the skew rabbet plane with a PM-V11 blade and it was pushed back for at least three months, I had to cancel and replace with 01 because I needed to use it. The blade then was, in fact, the problem, because I called them and asked about it and they immediately shipped one with a 01 blade. I have plenty of chisels to do chisel work, but I love the LV chisels and use them as my primary set. I think what's most bothersome is that they don't tell me about these delays. I have to login to my account and check the order status. Finding out that it's now a four-month wait that isn't even guaranteed is a bit annoying.
    Last edited by Adam Fort; 09-16-2018 at 11:39 PM.

  5. #5
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    First I've heard about a PM-V11 supply issue. Good luck. I expect they'll get caught up as soon as they can and, I imagine, be along tomorrow with more info.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Bassett View Post
    First I've heard about a PM-V11 supply issue. Good luck. I expect they'll get caught up as soon as they can and, I imagine, be along tomorrow with more info.
    Is the PM-V11 sourced in Canada?

    Could their be problems within the current international trade situation causing the problem?

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  7. #7
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    I would imagine it is supply from the mill issues. Small lot buyers even for what I imagine is a "standard" alloy get less than favorable treatment from mills.
    5,306 miles from where the greatest things with 4 wheels are born
    5,328 miles from where the greatest things with 2 wheels are born
    5,301 miles from where the greatest things with 2 wheels and a band are born
    Seems to be more than a coincidence to me...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    ... Could their be problems within the current international trade situation causing the problem? ...
    It crossed my mind, but I wasn't going to go there (for the fear of getting the thread closed. )

    I checked several different PM-V11 products and all are "Made in Canada". I don't believe that says anything about raw materials though and with everyone applying tariffs to everyone else's steel I wouldn't be surprised if there were some problems.

  9. #9
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    Up here in Canada a good portion of the tool steels etc come from the States. The prices for W2 from my local provincial supplier have increased quite a bit from when I first got it a couple years back. I also wouldn't be surprised if LV ran into a few issues with steel. Every time I have a pint thats an inch of W2 so now there are no pints to have. For at least a month.

  10. #10
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    Adam. PM sent.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Fort View Post
    I think what's most bothersome is that they don't tell me about these delays. I have to login to my account and check the order status. Finding out that it's now a four-month wait that isn't even guaranteed is a bit annoying.
    This is proof that somewhere a customer service system crack exists. It needs to be looked at and fixed.

    The crack was not known to the management or the customers because LV never failed in its delivery in such a widespread scale and in such a prolonged period.

    Simon

  12. #12
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    PMV-11 is the same as Cartech CTS-XHP steel from Carpenter. We had several discussions about this a few years back.

    I don't know where they make this steel. They do have a plant in China. There is also a division, Carpenter Powder Products in Sweden.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Fort View Post
    Love the company and its tools, but I've never ordered any item with a PM-V11 blade that didn't arrive extremely late. Just found out that a chisel I ordered in July is not expected to ship until November. This was the 3rd or 4th time it's been pushed back, and now I seriously wonder if it will even arrive this calendar year.

    Anyone know what's going on?
    Same here, just ordered a set of PMV-11 chisels and few of them are back ordered. The ATA for 1" is mid November...I also see that the dates are changing....
    In the past, I've experienced similar situation with my Jack plane and was told that delay was due to difficulties with mass production of terrified maple handles/totes.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Kees Heiden View Post
    PMV-11 is the same as Cartech CTS-XHP steel from Carpenter. We had several discussions about this a few years back.

    I don't know where they make this steel. They do have a plant in China. There is also a division, Carpenter Powder Products in Sweden.
    I don't know anything about patent laws. But could LV patent(?) its PMV11 if it was the same steel as another that also existed?

    By "same," do you mean same performance?

    Simon
    Last edited by Simon MacGowen; 09-17-2018 at 12:29 PM.

  15. #15
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    There is a difference between a patent and a Trade or Service Mark. The steel that makes up the blade could be patented. If a company wanted to take that steel and put a name on it that has importance for sales, then that is called a Service Mark. They are also registered by the Patent Office. The little R with a circle around it denotes this fact. Curious myself, I searched the USPTO trademark data base and found this: http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfi...803:8znyt2.3.1

    PM-V11 is indeed a registered trademark of Lee Valley. The steel it's made from could be called Jack's wonder dust, but if Lee Valley uses it and applies this mark, it becomes PM-V11.

    Said another way, Lee Valley is using a commercially available steel and then applying their trademark to it, which is the part that makes it protected. If another company wants to use the same exact steel for the same exact use, they certainly can, but they can't call it or refer to it as PM-V11

    Hope this clears it up.

    Pete

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