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Thread: Why does Lee Valley have problems delivering PM-V11 products on time?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilton Ralphs View Post
    Refer to my previous post. I'll repeat for the lazy readers, LEE VALLEY WILL NOT SELL YOU SOMETHING THEY CAN NOT SHIP ALMOST IMMEDIATELY.
    Even if they did, there's nothing wrong with it if you are aware of it and agree to it when you place your order. Some people might be willing to prepay an order in its entirety, even if it take months to fill, if this moves them to the front of the queue. At that long a wait it essentially becomes a custom order and it's not unusual for companies making items on a custom basis to get a deposit, at minimum, or maybe prepayment in full. See your local custom furnituremaker for examples.

    If you have to wait four or five months to get a chisel, they ought to offer free engraving.
    Last edited by Charles Guest; 09-20-2018 at 7:42 AM.

  2. #62
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    Companies often apply a credit hold. They test your card to see if it will have the available credit when you order something that will take a while. This is very common.

  3. #63
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    LV ought to consider putting some of this verbiage on their website where PM-V11 products are sold. There's nothing to indicate that substantial lead times may apply when you look at the PM-V11 chisels for example. Some people might want to inquire, first, before getting all the way to checkout before finding out an item is backordered and it would be months before the product ships. PM-V11 seems to be a special case, and an ongoing one at that based on Rob Lee's explanation, and it may be that special disclosure is advisable.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Guest View Post
    Even if they did, there's nothing wrong with it if you are aware of it and agree to it when you place your order. Some people might be willing to prepay an order in its entirety, even if it take months to fill, if this moves them to the front of the queue.
    I agree with you on this one. I've noticed even Amazon only hits your card when they're ready to ship. To make sure I don't spend the money I need for Lee Valley on other stuff, I now use a the gift card payment option to "lock up" my money for that impending purchase. I live in a country where the exchange rate fluctuates every day so sometimes it's frustrating to buy something and then when it eventually ships, it's actually more expensive than you initially thought.
    "If you have all your fingers, you can convert to Metric"

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon MacGowen View Post
    Have we seen another company (public or private) that is as open and transparent with its internal challenges as Lee Valley?

    If there is anything in the air, it is that we have witnessed a vendor that is willing to hear feedback, positive or negative, from its customers, and respond to them in a sincere manner.
    Simon
    +1. Well said Simon!
    Last edited by Frederick Skelly; 09-20-2018 at 7:55 AM.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon MacGowen View Post
    Have we seen another company (public or private) that is as open and transparent with its internal challenges as Lee Valley?

    If there is anything in the air, it is that we have witnessed a vendor that is willing to hear feedback, positive or negative, from its customers, and respond to them in a sincere manner.

    Simon
    Agree. In fact, when I saw this thread originally, I simply waited for Rob to respond in his usual open, genuine way and I don’t need to read any further. These are “good” challenges to have and also ones that if not managed effectively, can cause businesses to “grow themselves” right out of business. Thanks, Rob and all of your hard working team, for all you are doing.

    Kevin

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Guest View Post
    LV ought to consider putting some of this verbiage on their website where PM-V11 products are sold. There's nothing to indicate that substantial lead times may apply when you look at the PM-V11 chisels for example. Some people might want to inquire, first, before getting all the way to checkout before finding out an item is backordered and it would be months before the product ships. PM-V11 seems to be a special case, and an ongoing one at that based on Rob Lee's explanation, and it may be that special disclosure is advisable.
    That's not accurate-the LV website always indicates limited product availability and projected lead times long before the customer gets to checkout. Here is an actual screen capture of the PM-V11 chisel page today, with each item displaying an ! in a yellow box indicating that the item has limited stock or is out of stock with the projected available date. Click on the cart icon to add an item to your shopping cart that is out-of-stock, and the customer is given the projected ship date for the item. One does not have to wait until checkout to see that an item is not in stock.

    My understanding of the intent of the OP to post this is to express frustration with the current situation that Lee Valley's projected lead times is not accurate, and that lead time often gets pushed back multiple times/months into the future. Rob has acknowledged that and has discussed how they are working to improve the situation. Suggestions that Lee Valley does not inform the customer before checkout that an item is on backorder and the perhaps charges a customer's credit card on backorders to fund their operation is just not true.
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Greg Jones View Post
    That's not accurate-the LV website always indicates limited product availability and projected lead times long before the customer gets to checkout. Here is an actual screen capture of the PM-V11 chisel page today, with each item displaying an ! in a yellow box indicating that the item has limited stock or is out of stock with the projected available date. Click on the cart icon to add an item to your shopping cart that is out-of-stock, and the customer is given the projected ship date for the item. One does not have to wait until checkout to see that an item is not in stock.

    My understanding of the intent of the OP to post this is to express frustration with the current situation that Lee Valley's projected lead times is not accurate, and that lead time often gets pushed back multiple times/months into the future. Rob has acknowledged that and has discussed how they are working to improve the situation. Suggestions that Lee Valley does not inform the customer before checkout that an item is on backorder and the perhaps charges a customer's credit card on backorders to fund their operation is just not true.

    Yep, I see that now. I was clicking on a size for which there were a few in stock. The 1" chisel is shown as available on November 26th, though based on the original post I don't think it said November 26 when he ordered back in July. Maybe that needs to be clarified, or already has in later posts in the thread. I haven't read them all. Happy to be corrected.
    Last edited by Charles Guest; 09-20-2018 at 9:33 AM.

  9. #69
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    This thread boils down to two things:

    1. the reasons behind the chisel and PM-V11 in general being OOS and restocking dates pushed Rob answered that

    2. the take away for Lee Valley is it might be prudent to ensure emails are sent to customers with pending orders each time a date is pushed from the original at the time of order. That will only cure some of the angst since I watch people get irritated by a machine importer that has to push a lot of dates often for long periods of time, people wait for them based on price, people wait on PM-V11 due to the unique properties.


    BTW Rob if you are reading this I owe you a PM... sorry about that I lost track while at IWF, will address this soon, but I may need to push the reply date a little...
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

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  10. #70
    Hi -

    A couple of clarifications on points raised after my reply...

    Charges - Credit cards are only authorized the day the shipment is to occur, and only for the product shipping. Our system actually submits the charge when the parcel crosses the shipping scale, and the shipping label is generated (and shipping confirmation emailed). There are very few exceptions to this - mostly sets, where partial shipment would make sense (we charge for the set, and back-order individual items).

    Dates - Our system layers PO's, and reserves inventory against specific warehouses - from earliest planned receipt date to latest. Orders are always shipped on a first in first out basis. Generally - we try to set the dates to be farther out than actual, to allow for transit times between warehouses, and to customers. If you see a product that is not in stock, and has no expected date - then it has not been ordered, or there is insufficient inventory on order.

    Keep in mind too that Veritas exports to dealers in more than 100 countries. Veritas fills it's orders on a FIFO basis too..... so Lee Valley can be in line after export orders. When LV places an order to Veritas, an expected date is generated based on standard lead times. It may take Veritas a week or more to advise LV of lead time exceptions, which means we would be delayed in pushing out our dates (same for every vendor).

    There's lots of other things that can happen - and I could write dozens of pages in explanation... but the important things to know is that it is in our (and your) best interest to set and meet expectations - we do our best to telegraph our current understanding of stock situations at all times.

    Cheers -

    Rob

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Lee View Post
    If you see a product that is not in stock, and has no expected date - then it has not been ordered, or there is insufficient inventory on order.
    From the customer's POV, however, that isn't any different than being told a July order will be shipped (perhaps?) in November. On your end, yes, there is a big difference. And you've explained why. But you know what's going on in the supply chain. I'm just a doofus ordering tools on the internet, who did not understand everything going on in the background until this week. So, even though I'm fascinated by how the whole business works, and I could read dozens of pages of explanations and/or listen to you talk about the Lee Valley for hours, I hope you always keep in mind that all a customer is thinking is: "I accept and acknowledge the delays you've alerted me to, am I getting it when you say you're getting it?" I'd rather see this guy in my order history:

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    vs. being told - early Sept., late Sept., Nov.


    Anyway, I just wanted to emphasize that. I hope this is taken as constructive criticism, not trying to be a jerk. That new shooting board fence is arriving today, so I haven't soured on the company. I believe you when you say you are trying to fix this. Thank you for communicating to customers here and hearing me out, thank you for Lee Valley. You've helped improve my life. I mean that sincerely. I could make things with other tools but it wouldn't be as easy or fun.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Lee View Post
    Hi -

    A couple of clarifications on points raised after my reply...

    Charges - Credit cards are only authorized the day the shipment is to occur, and only for the product shipping. Our system actually submits the charge when the parcel crosses the shipping scale, and the shipping label is generated (and shipping confirmation emailed). There are very few exceptions to this - mostly sets, where partial shipment would make sense (we charge for the set, and back-order individual items).

    Dates - Our system layers PO's, and reserves inventory against specific warehouses - from earliest planned receipt date to latest. Orders are always shipped on a first in first out basis. Generally - we try to set the dates to be farther out than actual, to allow for transit times between warehouses, and to customers. If you see a product that is not in stock, and has no expected date - then it has not been ordered, or there is insufficient inventory on order.

    Keep in mind too that Veritas exports to dealers in more than 100 countries. Veritas fills it's orders on a FIFO basis too..... so Lee Valley can be in line after export orders. When LV places an order to Veritas, an expected date is generated based on standard lead times. It may take Veritas a week or more to advise LV of lead time exceptions, which means we would be delayed in pushing out our dates (same for every vendor).

    There's lots of other things that can happen - and I could write dozens of pages in explanation... but the important things to know is that it is in our (and your) best interest to set and meet expectations - we do our best to telegraph our current understanding of stock situations at all times.

    Cheers -

    Rob
    What happens when demand softens a little bit, but your suppliers' minimum order size for steel doesn't change. Is this already taking place?

  13. #73
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    Guys,

    I think we are crossing the line here. Just because Rob is good enough to answer this inquiry, doesn't mean he has to share his business plan, advertising approach and sales model. Honestly, it is a competitive market. The OP had an issue, the concern was raised and the concern was addressed. What more is there to see, short of arterial blood spurts and roadside carnage?

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Taran View Post
    Guys,

    I think we are crossing the line here. Just because Rob is good enough to answer this inquiry, doesn't mean he has to share his business plan, advertising approach and sales model. Honestly, it is a competitive market. The OP had an issue, the concern was raised and the concern was addressed. What more is there to see, short of arterial blood spurts and roadside carnage?
    +1. I was about to post something similar and you beat me to it.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

    “If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.”

  15. #75
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    Dead Horse Syndrome?

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