Why does Lee Valley have problems delivering PM-V11 products on time?

[Simon MacGowen]

There is a difference between a patent and a Trade or Service Mark. The steel that makes up the blade could be patented. If a company wanted to take that steel and put a name on it that has importance for sales, then that is called a Service Mark. They are also registered by the Patent Office. The little R with a circle around it denotes this fact. Curious myself, I searched the USPTO trademark data base and found this: http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfi...803:8znyt2.3.1

PM-V11 is indeed a registered trademark of Lee Valley. The steel it's made from could be called Jack's wonder dust, but if Lee Valley uses it and applies this mark, it becomes PM-V11.

Said another way, Lee Valley is using a commercially available steel and then applying their trademark to it, which is the part that makes it protected. If another company wants to use the same exact steel for the same exact use, they certainly can, but they can't call it or refer to it as PM-V11

Hope this clears it up.

Pete

Excellent explanation, Pete. Thanks for that. It sure makes sense to promote a product with a registered name, if the (sales) benefits outweigh the (patent) costs.

Simon

[Joe Rogers]

Registered products are a weapon that corporations use to protect their investment. Rob has in the past posted about his familys efforts to protect their products place in the market against knock off from unscrupulous vendors.
See Wood River.
”Hello. I have a factory in China and I can make this for you very cheaply...”
Joe

[Pete Taran]

Joe,

No question, that is what patents and trademarks are all about.

[Adam Fort]

Mine is also the 1".
Appreciate the input from everyone.

[Simon MacGowen]

Registered products are a weapon that corporations use to protect their investment. Rob has in the past posted about his familys efforts to protect their products place in the market against knock off from unscrupulous vendors.
See Wood River.
”Hello. I have a factory in China and I can make this for you very cheaply...”
Joe

Being able to register a product and being able to defend it are not the same thing. Smaller companies do not have the resources to sue someone in China even if they have patented or registered their products (that is why they don't bother to waste the money with registration or what not). After all, SawStop's case against Bosch was not a common example, and many did not think SawStop would have the resources to go after Bosch in the infringement case.

Wood River infringing on whose product rights or patents, by the way?

Simon

[Simon MacGowen]

I'd guess that LV customer service would be more than willing to cancel the order and refund if you didn't want to wait. That wouldn't get you the chisel, but it'd get the cash back into your pocket until they have some in stock.

Unless the payment process has changed, I don't think they charge you for a backorder until the goods is shipped out.

Simon

[Wojciech Tryc]

Unless the payment process has changed, I don't think they charge you for a backorder until the goods is shipped out.

Simon

Since I purchased it as a kit, I endup paying upfront, otherwise I would have to pay for each individual items (around $95 CDN more)...

[Hasin Haroon]

I imagine they have some sort of issue with supply...the current trade environment must pose some difficulties to a relatively small company like Lee Valley. When I purchased my PM-V11 chisel set sometime last year they were backordered for several months according to the website, so I went in store and bought the last set they had.

Literally the last set - they had to get some of the sizes out of the display case in store and find packaging for me (I insisted on packaging, they asked if I was ok just taking the chisel). It felt a little odd, especially for a set of $500 chisels, but none of them were used (they have some chisels meant for use in store) as evidenced by the grey backs so I was ok with it as I needed them then. Not much help to you if you live somewhere without a store nearby but if you do, they may have them in store. Either way, you'll receive them sooner or later, and they are great chisels, worth the wait.

As a side note - I do still believe Lee Valley should include a chisel roll of some sort with the set of PM-V11...they are fairly pricey chisels, and it's pretty common for chisels at half that price, such as the new Stanley Sweethearts (very nice leather roll) or the Ashley Iles (a more basic denim roll). It would make the packaging look less austere than it does now.

[Simon MacGowen]

Since I purchased it as a kit, I sendup paying upfront, otherwise I would have to pay for each individual items (around $95 CDN more)...

Now that you talked about the kit, it reminded me that my wife did pay for her order (not a kit) when she backordered something, but I did not remember if the credit card payment was processed right away.

Simon

[John C Cox]

Rob has also previously commented about being swamped by demand....

It’s a good problem to have and I think it speaks to the buying public’s opinion of the current state of the hand tools market...... AKA... Not everybody loves Aldi chisels and Harbor Freight planes....

[Adam Fort]

Rob has also previously commented about being swamped by demand....

It’s a good problem to have and I think it speaks to the buying public’s opinion of the current state of the hand tools market...... AKA... Not everybody loves Aldi chisels and Harbor Freight planes....

It may be a good problem for Lee Valley, but it is not a good problem for the customer when you are told in July that it will be delivered August, then in August you are told it will be late Sept., then in Sept. you are told it will be Nov. 9, and that the way you are told is by happening to login to your account one day and see the change that was never communicated to you any other way. What assurances do I have that it will be Nov. 9? I have ordered from Lee Valley for years and they have been nothing but stellar when it comes to customer service when I've had some minor issues. I live nowhere close to Canada but was able to visit a store for the first time this year and enjoyed talking to the people there who were very helpful. I am grateful this company exists. If they are truly doing all they can do, and if my orders just happen to coincide with some unplanned delay in the supply chain, I'm OK with that. At the same time I wish communication about the delays were better.

By the way, Aldi chisels have their place. Are they my preferred chisel for nice furniture? No. But I don't use my preferred chisels for grunt work.

[Pete Taran]

AKA... Not everybody loves Aldi chisels and Harbor Freight planes....

+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

[Simon MacGowen]

+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Quite a strong statement, but still not strong enough as it is still smaller than a googleplex.

Simon

[Charles Guest]

Love the company and its tools, but I've never ordered any item with a PM-V11 blade that didn't arrive extremely late. Just found out that a chisel I ordered in July is not expected to ship until November. This was the 3rd or 4th time it's been pushed back, and now I seriously wonder if it will even arrive this calendar year.

Anyone know what's going on?

There's not much of an excuse that holds water for a four or five month delay unless you've ordered a Lamborghini in a special color. A woodworking chisel or plane iron ? No way.

[Tony Wilkins]

When PMV-11 was first introduced, it was mentioned that they had to work with mills and their orders weren’t a priority and there could be up to six month delays in their orders.