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Thread: What's the difference between a Powermatic 27 and a Grizzly G1026 shaper?

  1. #1

    What's the difference between a Powermatic 27 and a Grizzly G1026 shaper?

    The PM is $600, 5hp and 3phase pretty new and clean. I don't have 3 phase power so I'd have to invest some additional money in a phase converter. The Griz is $390, 3hp and single phase. It's an older model and will clean up without much trouble. He sold the spindles when he sold the cutters so I'd have to replace the spindle. Not a big deal, each spindle, washer and nuts has been priced at less than $25. The Griz is 4 hours further away than the PM. There are no other local options for my budget.

    I don't have a need for 5hp as I won't be pushing that much material through the machine. After all, this is only a hobbyist shop. What I could do is swap the 5hp motor for the 3hp in my table saw and then put a 3hp VFD on the shaper for $280. (I already have a 5hp vfd on the TS).

    At $900, this is more than I really wanted to invest in a shaper so I was wondering what advantages the PM might have over the Griz. I have a hunch that they're both the same machine, made by the same Taiwanese mfr.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Einwalter View Post
    I have a hunch that they're both the same machine, made by the same Taiwanese mfr.
    Have you verified the PM27 was made in Taiwan? I thought all of them were made in the US, but I suppose the later ones could have seen production shift to Taiwan.

    BTW you likely want the 5hp, just don't know it yet.

    Had 3, knew I needed 5, got 5 wished I had 7.5, got 7.5 and now wishing for 9... and I am a hobbyist also.


    Edit: I should have added if you are feeling like you are overspending at $900, you might want to reconsider a shaper. The shaper itself is usually the cheapest part of the equation. Price out your feeder and take a look at tooling before you commit to either machine.
    Last edited by Van Huskey; 09-12-2018 at 10:55 AM.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

  3. #3
    The motor tag clearly says "Made in Taiwan"; it's also shaped a bit weird and doesn't have a frame class listed on it. I'm pretty sure this is in the Jet/Grizzly/Powermatic/Baileigh... family of rebadged Taiwanese tools.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Einwalter View Post
    The motor tag clearly says "Made in Taiwan"; it's also shaped a bit weird and doesn't have a frame class listed on it. I'm pretty sure this is in the Jet/Grizzly/Powermatic/Baileigh... family of rebadged Taiwanese tools.

    I can't comment about a Asian PM27 as I have never seen one. I have seen dozens and dozens of American made ones and owned a couple but never seen one built in Asia. As I said it would have been late in their run.

    What color is the saw, is it green, gold or mustard? Unless it is mustard it is definitely US built since I know for a fact some of the mustard PM27s were US made.

    Edit to add picture. This is the tag on a Mustard and Black PM27 built in 2007 so any of the gold ones would be US made.

    00000000000000000000000001.jpg
    Last edited by Van Huskey; 09-12-2018 at 12:14 PM.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Einwalter View Post
    The PM is $600, 5hp and 3phase pretty new and clean. I don't have 3 phase power so I'd have to invest some additional money in a phase converter. The Griz is $390, 3hp and single phase. It's an older model and will clean up without much trouble. He sold the spindles when he sold the cutters so I'd have to replace the spindle. Not a big deal, each spindle, washer and nuts has been priced at less than $25. The Griz is 4 hours further away than the PM. There are no other local options for my budget.

    I don't have a need for 5hp as I won't be pushing that much material through the machine. After all, this is only a hobbyist shop. What I could do is swap the 5hp motor for the 3hp in my table saw and then put a 3hp VFD on the shaper for $280. (I already have a 5hp vfd on the TS).

    At $900, this is more than I really wanted to invest in a shaper so I was wondering what advantages the PM might have over the Griz. I have a hunch that they're both the same machine, made by the same Taiwanese mfr.
    In my opinion, being three phase is a bonus as you can easily add a VFD to it (check voltage) and get infinite speed control, reverse and motor braking. Won't cost you too much. If you're a non-industrial user, there are tooling options that are not so terribly expensive.

    B

  6. #6
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    The 1026 is a clone of the delta hd shaper. The pm is slightly heavier. Of the two, get the Pm.
    Last edited by Jared Sankovich; 09-12-2018 at 2:08 PM.

  7. #7
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    If the Taiwan PM uses the same design as the old PM 27, it will be a heavier build with a larger table, stouter quill, and worth the extra money. Dave

  8. #8
    Do you know the model number of the Delta?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Einwalter View Post
    Do you know the model number of the Delta?
    The HD Shaper was made under several model numbers (like many Delta machines) but the most often seen version is the 43-205.

    Did you verify the color of the PM 27, because if it is gold it is 100% that it is US built.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

  10. #10
    I know about the Delta's have several part numbers for seemingly identical machines. I guess the difference has to do with the motor. Some shipped without motors that were dealer installed.

    The machine is a dark yellow with a black stripe. It does have a USA flag on it. But then again, so did the Ramco bandsaw that I owned for two weeks.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Einwalter View Post
    I know about the Delta's have several part numbers for seemingly identical machines. I guess the difference has to do with the motor. Some shipped without motors that were dealer installed.

    The machine is a dark yellow with a black stripe. It does have a USA flag on it. But then again, so did the Ramco bandsaw that I owned for two weeks.
    That is a mustard machine if it has black stripes, thus a late model. Powermatic was always good about the Made in US compliance. In fact Made in the US or anything that can be construed as that is one of the highest standards in the world, higher than the Swiss, Germans, Japanese, Italians, Austrians. Once when Powermatics foundry was down they imported a bunch of castings and changed to an Assembled, tested and inspected in the US from foreign and domestic parts model plate.

    In the end the 27 is a better machine than the Delta HD or the Grizzly 1026, the main thing you have to watch out for is the 27s were often beat to death in small cabinet shops but you said this one is in good shape and it has to be a relatively new one based on the color. If the PM machine plate says made in the US you can bet it didn't come out of the same factory as the Grizzly.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

  12. #12
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    Delta marketed the machine as HD but it really wasn't. Certain PM machines made during the " Houdaille" period have issues but this should be after that time. the owwm guys will have info on both shapers. Dave

  13. #13
    I have the grizzly. Piece is shit. Had trouble from day one.

  14. #14
    You'd be surprised how underpowered 3 hp is a shaper.

  15. #15
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    Given a choice it would be the model 27.
    You're not saying of anything is coming with the 27, so I don't know what you're getting with the machine. The Griz' without spindles means you're going to have to buy spindles before you can even use it.
    The Powermatic shipped with 1" and 1-1/4". The Grizzly shipped with a 1/2" and a 3/4". I don;t know if a 1" spindle is available for the Grizzly. I'm assuming that a 5HP, 3phase motor should be powering the 1-1/4" spindle.
    A 1" spindle is an odd duck these days. Not many manufactures are making cutters that fit it. Usually you will be buying a 1-1/4" cutter and using T-bushings to make it fit a 1". You will also need to invest in spindle adapters and longer T-bushings to accommodate cutter spacing. I know this because I have a Delta 43-375 shaper with a 1" spindle cartridge.
    There are lots of 3/4" shaper cutters but they will generally be 2-5/8" to 2-7/8" diameter in cabinet sets. This can get a little frustrating matching cutter sets with back cutters and glass cutters. You're somewhat limited with depths of cuts, unless you have the cutter sets made. The 1-1/4" inch sets will have many more options available stock. Peruse the Freeborn, or Infinity website and you'll see what I mean.
    Accessories. There are lots of accessory sets, shims, bearings rub collars, etc stock for 1/2" spindles and 1-1/4" spindles. For the 3/4" and 1" you'll be buyinh=g them singly.
    All said, I'd rather have a 1-1/4" spindle, and use my routers for anything smaller. My 1" spindle is a compromise, but it works.
    Last edited by Mike Cutler; 09-13-2018 at 3:35 AM.
    "The first thing you need to know, will likely be the last thing you learn." (Unknown)

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