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Thread: I need a new machine. Recommendations please.

  1. #1

    I need a new machine. Recommendations please.

    I'm in search of a moby dick of machines, and I figure if anyone could help find it, you can.

    My 50 watt cuts metal but very slow. Here are my additional needs:

    1. Desktop or compact. I don't need one of those monster flatbed lasers.

    2. I'm trying to cut up to 1mm copper, brass, sterling, and precious metals.

    3. Waterjet vs gantry fiber vs plasma?

    I'm sure I'll have more but any recommendations would be a great start. All I'm finding so far are those large flatbed machines.
    Trotec Speedy 300 - 80 watt
    Synrad 30 Watt - CO2 Galvo
    LaserStar 3804 - 50 watt fiber - SPI Source
    Tykma Minilase - 20 watt fiber - SPI Source - (MOPA)
    CorelDraw X7

  2. #2
    up to 1mm? Depending on the detail needed and material loss you would tolerate, my IS400 and a 1/16 or 1/32" endmill will cut those metals. And it wouldn't be that tough to rig up a catch tray that would gather most of the cuttings of expensive metals. Anything you tool cut would need some hand finishing and the tool radius's would be a factor on any inside corners, so there would be limitations.

    My machine got set on a dinky cobbled-together table the day I got it for lack of anything better, been there for almost 7 years, it qualifies as 'table-top'
    DSC01498.JPG

    Aside from tool machining, if you're cutting you don't want a galvo since the cut edge will never be straight, so a high-power gantry fiber may be in your future, and may have to be custom built?
    ========================================
    ELEVEN - rotary cutter tool machines
    FOUR - CO2 lasers
    THREE- make that FOUR now - fiber lasers
    ONE - vinyl cutter
    CASmate, Corel, Gravostyle


  3. #3
    Some of the cuts are intricate, so I'm unsure if a waterjet can cut it (pun intended). A gantry fiber exists in desktop form, and can use compressed air, oxygen, etc. but no one I've spoken to knows whether copper, brass etc. will cut great with just air assist. I'm scared of working with oxygen driven systems.

    And they make production size flatbed gantry systems that are awesome, but I need a desktop solution.

  4. #4
    Once I read your other thread, I realized tooling would be a bit 'fat'.

    Die stamping would work, except for the pesky issues of making the dies, and the stamping machine -- okay for mass production, not so much for low volume work...

    Sucks when a good solution doesn't seem to exist... I make dial faces for re-calibrated high-pressure gauges for a customer, usually only 2 or 4 at a time, couple of times per month, and they're all different-- and now their customers are asking about 4-color gauge faces; green-ok/yellow-warning/red-danger, plus the basic white background and lasered black letters... and I can't think of an 'economically viable' way to make these.

    --hi-jack done, sorry-
    ========================================
    ELEVEN - rotary cutter tool machines
    FOUR - CO2 lasers
    THREE- make that FOUR now - fiber lasers
    ONE - vinyl cutter
    CASmate, Corel, Gravostyle


  5. #5
    I'm holding out hope that a waterjet desktop exists that can also microcut. Or what about a plasma? Kern makes a gantry CO2 with oxygen in a small 24"x24" format too that cuts metals. I'm just scared of the possibility of fire or worse, explosion.

  6. #6
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    I'd be talking with Kern and NOT a Chinese company if you go the O2 direction.
    Looks like quick internet search for waterjet gives a minimum of .5mm up to 1.5mm kerf. Why not contact several of the companies and get some reviews of your most complex design vs the cost.
    Most look like they provide free quotes. This would let you know if it is even feasable with waterjet.
    Woodworking, Old Tools and Shooting
    Ray Fine RF-1390 Laser Ray Fine 20watt Fiber Laser
    SFX 50 Watt Fiber Laser
    PM2000, Delta BS, Delta sander, Powermatic 50 jointer,
    Powermatic 100-12 planer, Rockwell 15-126 radial drill press
    Rockwell 46-450 lathe, and 2 Walker Turner RA1100 radial saws
    Jet JWS18, bandsaw Carbide Create CNC, RIA 22TCM 1911s and others

  7. #7
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    Kev, possibly dye sublimation? Might work, (based on your description at least)
    Woodworking, Old Tools and Shooting
    Ray Fine RF-1390 Laser Ray Fine 20watt Fiber Laser
    SFX 50 Watt Fiber Laser
    PM2000, Delta BS, Delta sander, Powermatic 50 jointer,
    Powermatic 100-12 planer, Rockwell 15-126 radial drill press
    Rockwell 46-450 lathe, and 2 Walker Turner RA1100 radial saws
    Jet JWS18, bandsaw Carbide Create CNC, RIA 22TCM 1911s and others

  8. #8
    I have Omax doing some test cuts for me next week. They tell me that they're confident that the kerf width will be plenty enough for doing intricate designs. It would be pretty awesome cuz honestly I've always wanted a waterjet, and this will give me justification for it. The representative tells me that the kerf width is .03" (.762mm). In your opinion do you think that's small enough for intricate designs?

  9. #9
    So I'm back to square one. The waterjet demo would not cut as intricate as we needed to cut. Now will a plasma to my knowledge. I'm upset because it would have blown my 50 watt out of the water, time wise.

    Any ideas on the best way to cut sheet metal, intricate designs, and the most cost efficient? Also, I don't need one of those gigantic flat bed fibers.

    How are these companies mass producing small intricate pieces?!

    Quote Originally Posted by John Lifer View Post
    I'd be talking with Kern and NOT a Chinese company if you go the O2 direction.
    Looks like quick internet search for waterjet gives a minimum of .5mm up to 1.5mm kerf. Why not contact several of the companies and get some reviews of your most complex design vs the cost.
    Most look like they provide free quotes. This would let you know if it is even feasable with waterjet.

    I love Kern, but their machines are way beyond my price range for a compact, desktop style system. Laserstar's system is half of the Kern quote, though in speaking with Kern they recommended a 1Kw fiber. Laserstar claims their 150W (air assisted) system will cut up to 1mm sheet metal. I'm confused.
    Last edited by Jacob John; 09-20-2018 at 10:24 PM.
    Trotec Speedy 300 - 80 watt
    Synrad 30 Watt - CO2 Galvo
    LaserStar 3804 - 50 watt fiber - SPI Source
    Tykma Minilase - 20 watt fiber - SPI Source - (MOPA)
    CorelDraw X7

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob John View Post
    Laserstar claims their 150W (air assisted) system will cut up to 1mm sheet metal. I'm confused.
    Have them do a live demo, no more confusion. I'm betting that although it could do 1mm it won't do it cost effectively.

  11. #11
    A lot of small businesses suffer this problem. They need a $150k machine but can afford a $30k machine.

    My recommendation would be to find the machine type that can do the job. Then contact people who own that machine to see the cost to produce for you. Once you have a supplier, your job will be to sell enough to buy the machine for yourself.
    Equipment: IS400, IS6000, VLS 6.60, LS100, HP4550, Ricoh GX e3300n, Hotronix STX20
    Software: Adobe Suite & Gravostyle 5
    Business: Trophy, Awards and Engraving

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Hair View Post
    Have them do a live demo, no more confusion. I'm betting that although it could do 1mm it won't do it cost effectively.
    I'll do that Gary, thanks. I've gotten quotes from a variety of different places for this, and all seem to recommend a different wattage machine. Some say 300w minimum, others 1Kw. Laserstar says their 150w will do it, but recommend the 300w.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ross Moshinsky View Post
    A lot of small businesses suffer this problem. They need a $150k machine but can afford a $30k machine.

    My recommendation would be to find the machine type that can do the job. Then contact people who own that machine to see the cost to produce for you. Once you have a supplier, your job will be to sell enough to buy the machine for yourself.
    This is exactly where we are right now. I don't need the massive flatbed machines most companies offer though. I don't think we'll ever scale that large, and that's ok with me. It's finding a desktop version of those flatbed gantry fibers that is difficult. I guess there's no market for them.
    Trotec Speedy 300 - 80 watt
    Synrad 30 Watt - CO2 Galvo
    LaserStar 3804 - 50 watt fiber - SPI Source
    Tykma Minilase - 20 watt fiber - SPI Source - (MOPA)
    CorelDraw X7

  13. #13
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    I'd first send Laserstar a piece of your material and a complex design. Then request a full video of the machine and the cutting.
    FULL video, no cuts. Put up or shut up. Sorry, I've seen a number of their youtube videos and they are all pretty deceptive.
    20 watt cutting in a few minutes what would take a 50 watt 30 minutes to do.

    I myself wouldn't buy from them, there are others out there. But put it in their hands to SELL you a machine. A LOT of the little thin stuff is stamped out. I'd bet a lot is cast.
    One thing you have to realize, is that in a lot of 3rd world countries, labor is still Cents per hour. You can give a man a rough cut and a file and in two hours he's finished cleaning it up and gets a quarter.
    REALLY. I've got a couple of wood sculptures that would take me a week of cutting and sanding. 3D carved behind front, 3 inches deep. Paid $30 in an expensive shop. (shop probably made $20 of the $30)
    Woodworking, Old Tools and Shooting
    Ray Fine RF-1390 Laser Ray Fine 20watt Fiber Laser
    SFX 50 Watt Fiber Laser
    PM2000, Delta BS, Delta sander, Powermatic 50 jointer,
    Powermatic 100-12 planer, Rockwell 15-126 radial drill press
    Rockwell 46-450 lathe, and 2 Walker Turner RA1100 radial saws
    Jet JWS18, bandsaw Carbide Create CNC, RIA 22TCM 1911s and others

  14. #14
    Thanks, John, appreciate the thoughts. I'm not hung up on their machine, but they are the only ones that sell a desktop gantry fiber, capable of cutting sheet metal. At least the only one I can find from a Western company. I found these guys (Cosmo Laser) out of China, but I'm not too sure about this. I've never heard of them like I have G*Weike and others.

    http://www.cosmolaser.net/en/index.p.../01-26/56.html

    Does anyone know the max wattage that comes in a galvo fiber? I'm having someone test cut pieces on a 100w galvo to see how much faster it is than my 50w, but I won't have those results until next week. Do galvos come in 150w? I know wattage isn't everything, but in cutting it sure does help.

    I'm also trying to understand Yags. On CNC Zone and a few other sites, they mention Yags for cutting metal. Thoughts?
    Trotec Speedy 300 - 80 watt
    Synrad 30 Watt - CO2 Galvo
    LaserStar 3804 - 50 watt fiber - SPI Source
    Tykma Minilase - 20 watt fiber - SPI Source - (MOPA)
    CorelDraw X7

  15. #15
    https://www.bodor.com/Fiber_Laser/Pl...09-27/335.html <<web page linky to:

    bodor.jpg

    this is exactly what you're looking for -- found some conflicting info on power for this machine, one place says 500/1000/1500watt, to the linked page they quote 1000/1500/2000watt power...
    600x600mm work area, so it ain't huge... Bodor is at least a 'heard of' laser company... I'm sure the worst part of this machine would be the price...

    Jus' trying to help

    >>edit<< -- that little Cosmo looks interesting, I would assume it's built better than their website Some missing info too, gas assist y/n? Laser power would be good to know too... Depending on what you're doing exactly it may be a good fit... I've heard of Cosmo- or more accurately, I've seen their name around over the years. And I would think any company going to the trouble of building such an animal wouldn't exactly be a fly-by-night operation...

    Anyway, found this Bodor vid on their page--

    Last edited by Kev Williams; 09-21-2018 at 8:31 PM.
    ========================================
    ELEVEN - rotary cutter tool machines
    FOUR - CO2 lasers
    THREE- make that FOUR now - fiber lasers
    ONE - vinyl cutter
    CASmate, Corel, Gravostyle


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