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Thread: Water poly vs lacquer for table tops

  1. #1
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    Water poly vs lacquer for table tops

    This question has probably been asked and answered before, so feel free to post links in your reply. I've googled it a good deal and haven't landed on a discussion that nails it for me, yet.

    So which finish is better for tabletops that will be in regular homes, being used for meals, kids homework and so on?
    - precat lacquer or water-based poly (acrylic)?

    I have reasonable spraying skills with lacquer, and have brushed on plenty of water-based poly. If I end up going with the "poly" for this next batch of tables I will consider spraying it, if that influences your advice. I've used Zar exclusively over the years.

    My concern is that I've read that hot plates and alcohol spills can affect the lacquer. Is this so?

    Which is more durable to wear?

    I should add that I'm pretty useless with wipe on poly, never seem to get a nice surface, and I don't feel these tables are appropriate (the time investment) for the hand rubbed poly/oil finish I use on other furniture.

    thanks, Mark

  2. #2
    I would go with water based poly only because of toxicity of lacquer.

    At Jim Becker's suggestion, I recently finished a dining table with EmTech 8000 WB conversion varnish. I was extremely happy with it. Sprays like a dream and you can do multiple coats and be done in 1 day.

    Heres' the data sheet.

  3. #3
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    The TC conversion varnish would be a great choice, far superior to most any pre cat lacquers. One step short of that product would be GF's EnduroVar. It's very easy to spray and very durable to foods, hot plates, etc.

    John

  4. #4
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    Thanks guys, I was not at all aware of these water based products. I've read a little about them tonight and they seem to be the way to go.

    Just to be clear - are you both saying these are more durable than regular precat lacquer?
    How do they compare to oil based polyurethane?

  5. #5
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    Both are better than most pre-cat lacquers. The TC conversion varnish will be superior to OB poly, the EnduroVar about equal.

    John

  6. #6
    Wonder if the conversion varnish would work over minwax antique oil finish?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by greg bulman View Post
    Wonder if the conversion varnish would work over minwax antique oil finish?
    Yes, the EM8000cv will cover that, provided that either the existing finish is fully cured and lightly abraded or sealed with a thin barrier coat of de-waxed shellac.
    -----

    I had a chance to "fondle" the very large kitchen island top that I finished with the EM8000cv earlier this year and the surface remains "pristine", even after multiple entertainment events and daily use by my client/friend. I also put it on my replacement upper cabinets in our kitchen and it's noticeably a great product from the standpoint of durability and ease of keeping clean without damaging it.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  8. #8
    Thanks. I might give it a try im doing a farm table with cherry top and have a coupe of coats of antique oil on it. Like the color it gives cherry. Being trying o decide on topcoat.

  9. #9
    What's the minimum HVLP set up one needs to successfully spray EM 8000? This topcoat intriques me.

  10. #10
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    The $15 ($10 when on sale) purple Harbor Freight gravity feed HVLP gun with a 1.4 mm N/N paired with a compressor that can output at least around 6 cfm at 40 psi would spray it fine. There are lots of other low cost guns that will do the job just as well. For occasional use you don't need to spend much.

    John

  11. #11
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    It's a shame that floor finish is not available in sizes smaller than one gallon. I have finished several tables with various floor finishes, but with leftovers from finishing floors. I know of one that's 25 years old, done with Moisture Cure Urethane, and I don't think it has a scratch on it after daily use. If I was building a really expensive table, I would consider putting $135 in a gallon of finish, even if it only needed a quarter of it.

    The full range is available from something that looks like nothing is on the wood, but would still be suitable for the floor in a hotel lobby-Bona Naturale, to deep looking, full shine with a number of other choices, and everything in between.

  12. #12
    Tom, Specifically, which floor finishes have you used that are that tough?
    Mike

  13. #13
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    The only one I remember putting on a table top was Moisture Cure Urethane, which was the go to floor finish before the low VOC ones became widely available. I used to put leftovers in empty 16 oz. soda bottles. I'd squeeze the air out before closing. I finished many house interiors with it by wiping on with T-shirt cloth touched to the bottle. They wouldn't last one once opened, and maybe six months if unopened. A little went a long way, and I don't think any of the woodwork, and cabinets in those houses has ever been refinished.

    Most of the newer industrial floor finishes are almost as tough. I'm not talking about what's sold as floor finish in Lowes, and Home Depot.

    I measure the two part finishes, and save some. The two part Bona's will keep for several years (don't really know the end life limit) if unmixed. Bona Naturale comes in handy when you don't want to darken something. Put on Oak, it looks like nothing is on the wood, but it's a commercial floor finish, and I've seen it used in hotel lobbies. Bona Naturale is an acid cure urethane, so even though technically low VOC, you need clean air to breath while using it.

    I built the house we live in in 1980. I finished the floors with MCU, and they have never been redone. I put it on top of commercial tile in our dogroom. Some of that tile didn't match good, so when I built another addition, I took the floor sander in the dogroom. The plan was to sand it, and put MCU paint on it. A 60 grit screen on the buffer wouldn't even scratch it, so it's still not showing a good match in the tiles.

    The closest thing to what used to be available as MCU is this stuff. I did a floor with it maybe ten years ago, and still looks like new. http://www.lenmar-coatings.com/produ...-cure-urethane Most of what's in the can is tolulene, and xylene, so nothing like low VOC. More like Extreme VOC.
    Last edited by Tom M King; 10-02-2018 at 7:58 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom M King View Post
    It's a shame that floor finish is not available in sizes smaller than one gallon. I have finished several tables with various floor finishes, but with leftovers from finishing floors. I know of one that's 25 years old, done with Moisture Cure Urethane, and I don't think it has a scratch on it after daily use. If I was building a really expensive table, I would consider putting $135 in a gallon of finish, even if it only needed a quarter of it.

    The full range is available from something that looks like nothing is on the wood, but would still be suitable for the floor in a hotel lobby-Bona Naturale, to deep looking, full shine with a number of other choices, and everything in between.
    Hey Tom (or anyone else),
    Please elaborate on which specific finishes you are referring to. I make a fair number of tables each year and have always used Waterlox, my tables are commissioned and somewhat pricey compared to mass produced. I really like the amber tone, durability and ease of repair that Waterlox provides but am not a fan of the cure time. I have a Fuji 4 stage for spraying.

    Mahalo - Bill

  15. #15
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    There is no such thing as ease of repair of any of the floor finishes I've mentioned so far, but they are designed to be walked on my people in commercial buildings. The ones that are easily repairable are not considered durable for a floor finish. I sprayed MCU paint on a small airplane hanger floor once with airless, but I was using a supplied air hood. Typically, pro floor finishes are flooded on, which is not much slower than spraying.

    edited to add: I'm going to try some of this the next chance I get: https://www.loba.de/us/products/wate...orne-finishes/
    Last edited by Tom M King; 10-02-2018 at 9:08 PM.

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