Alternative approach to cutting tenons

[Matt Mattingley]

Yes

Is there some kinda weird supermoon or is Mars in retrograde? Brian and Derek both over here using electric pixies. I am afraid to go to the Neander forum, a bunch of machine guys may have crossed over and be there in a cat fight over bevel angles and chip breakers.

Chip load, attack angle and chipbreaker are all very important features of handling the chip and the heat. As often as possible you want to put the heat into the chip and not the cutter.

This takes things to a whole new level. This now starts getting into metallurgy, chip size/Displacement management and chip/tool heat management, feeds and arbour tool speed’s.

Most saw blade companies use silver solder or brass solder brazing. Silver solder handles more heat.
The higher the attack angle in degrees the sharper the tool and reducing tear out. But, this comes at a price of resharpening more frequently.

Ideally for wood using a blade style 15° (For Long life) is the best attack angle. This attack angle changes depending on how high a blade is above the surface. And… The surface feet per minute of the blade and… The chip load and The feed ratio and… The hardness and sharpness of the tooth, and the hardness of the wood. What you’re cutting has a hardness usually measured in janka scale. For metal a ball bearing or diamond which is called a Rockwell scale.

Don’t expect cutting pine vs IPE to be the same. IPE is sitting up there at the top of the hardness of woods. I’ve been cutting a lot of it lately. Don’t expect your same tooling to do the same trick at the same speed for the same amount time.

Most hobbyists are not looking for longjevity and efficiency during production runs, of a cutters reliability. This starts to become efficiency factor for guys who are running CNC machines.

I am retired, but CNC machines were my forte for almost 20 years. I’m not a stranger!

[Jacques Gagnon]

Brian,

have you tried using microns as your measurement units?🤓

your work is impeccable as well as impressive; kudos!

J

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks Jacques!

Appreciate the insights Matt! That set of pins is quite nice.

[Brian Holcombe]

These things are not quite popular anymore, with the advent of CNC but they're handy for the manual knee-mill. This one was relegated to the junk pile, my dad picked it up a long while back (about 15 years) and it sat around his shop for that long, the two parts having been separated (chuck from table) for some time but whoever made it really had their act together as it features a brass locating pin that is hefty. Still, for some reason when I found it the jaws were out of alignment (self aligning jaws need to be inserted in order) and the chuck frozen. The rotary table turned only in one direction and the lock did not work.

Both were completely broken down, cleaned and inspected. What was probably 20 years of brass and aluminum filings removed from both. Then greased and readied for battle.

In any case, Troyke I knew, but I looked up Buck chucks and after I picked my jaw up off the floor I thought it best to get it back into working order. I love aesthetic restorations but usually settle for simply getting things in working order.

Both were rusted heaps on friday, I polished up both, but took the table to a high finish so that the markings are very visible.







Turns out there is a locking flange nut on the backside of the table, it must be locked into place or the table rotation will tighten it as the table is turned allowing it to turn in one direction. Hah. So, the flange nut was locked in place upon reassembly. The lock was an easier fix needing only be tightened slightly.

[Mike Cutler]

Really what I would like to be doing is cutting these with a shaper or tenoner.

Using a shaper to make tenons is very nice.
It cost a couple hundred $$$$ to get set up the first time. After that it's just so easy, and fast, to make perfect tenons. All it takes is a dial indicator on a mag base and a vernier caliper.

I still like your Bridgeport method though.

[Jared Sankovich]

Using a shaper to make tenons is very nice.
It cost a couple hundred $$$$ to get set up the first time. After that it's just so easy, and fast, to make perfect tenons. All it takes is a dial indicator on a mag base and a vernier caliper.

I still like your Bridgeport method though.

As little as a hundred if you only use one head and just raise or lower the spindle for the second cheek cut.

The knee mill is a interesting solution, and I've used my mill and metal lathe for wood cuts myself in the past. However wood dust isn't the greatest thing when mixed with way oil for the ways of precision machine tools.

[Peter Christensen]

Doesn't you knee mill have power feeds?

[Brian Holcombe]

It has one for the x-axis (table) but the saddle is in need of repair at the moment so I wind it the saddle by hand.

If I do this again I will turn the vise 90 degrees and perform the cut using the feeder.

If the tools are sharp the cutter is producing shavings, not dust, and the machine is cleaned after each one of these processes, then wiped down carefully at the end of the day.

[Dave Cav]

Really what I would like to be doing is cutting these with a shaper or tenoner.

Yeah, a tenoner would be fastest and potentially the most repeatable. And then to keep the Neander flavor, you could join the current discussion over at OWWM about square tenoner heads vs insert heads.

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks for pointing me to that thread, Dave! Reading along.

I flip back and forth as I would like the multi-tasking ability of a sliding table shaper, but a dedicated tenoner seems a better tool for the job in many ways.

Mark Hennebury pointed me toward the Balestrini tenders recently, those look really awesome but I assume can only cut rounded corners? I dont know if they can be made to cut square corners but I like that they cut a full shoulder in one motion.

[Mark Hennebury]

Thanks for pointing me to that thread, Dave! Reading along.

I flip back and forth as I would like the multi-tasking ability of a sliding table shaper, but a dedicated tenoner seems a better tool for the job in many ways.

Mark Hennebury pointed me toward the Balestrini tenders recently, those look really awesome but I assume can only cut rounded corners? I dont know if they can be made to cut square corners but I like that they cut a full shoulder in one motion.

High Brian,

The Balestrini TAO that i discussed with you is only made only for round end. you can of course do a square end with only top and bottom shoulders, if you go past the with of the wood. or you can trim the round ends as a second op. There are some auto tenoners that do round or square i believe, but they may CNC. The Balestrini could maybe be made to do square end, but it would require some major alteration as it operates on a pin tracer system, you would have to remove the round end templates or attached straight ones over top. I think it could be done, but like i said, not easily.

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks Mark, very much appreciate your insights!

[Jared Sankovich]

Thanks for pointing me to that thread, Dave! Reading along.

I flip back and forth as I would like the multi-tasking ability of a sliding table shaper, but a dedicated tenoner seems a better tool for the job in many ways.

Mark Hennebury pointed me toward the Balestrini tenders recently, those look really awesome but I assume can only cut rounded corners? I dont know if they can be made to cut square corners but I like that they cut a full shoulder in one motion.

Imho a shaper adds a lot of versatility in addition to being able to cut tenons. Adding a tenoner after you already have a shaper or two makes the most sense (to me anyway) even if its a powermatic with millbury heads

[Brian Holcombe]

If only I could put two shapers in my workshop, haha!