Remember the "to a hammer, everything is a nail" thing?

[Jim Becker]

I'm getting deeply embedded in the "how can I cut that on the CNC" bandwagon, despite having a shop full of incredible tools. Every project. Every. Time. LOL

I think part of it is that I really enjoy visualizing things on the computer screen and working out the details.

Today I drew out a cutting file to do the miter cuts on material for a photo panel order I got in from a client. And of course, I had to draw out and create the cutting file for a bunch of "clamping devices" to hold the material for the photo panel order to do those miter cuts. And no, I didn't do all that merely because the power was out in the shop because the whole house generator only powers the house.

Sheesh...it's an addiction...

[Bryan Lisowski]

Jim, so your saying your going to have to sell all your tools soon to fund the 2nd CNC (addiction). I could see how there are a lot of things that a CNC could replace versus doing by normal methods. If making a jig it may take a bit longer to do on a CNC, but more accurate.

[Jim Becker]

Jim, so your saying your going to have to sell all your tools soon to fund the 2nd CNC (addiction). I could see how there are a lot of things that a CNC could replace versus doing by normal methods. If making a jig it may take a bit longer to do on a CNC, but more accurate.

ROFLOL! I don't think so, but it's very eye opening that I'm always thinking "how can I do this on the CNC?". I do wish I could have gone 4x8 or 5x8, but that just wasn't in the cards for my shop's available space.

[Bryan Lisowski]

As much as I would like to have a CNC, one of the biggest things that has always stopped me in my tracks is I would hate to get really involved and then regret not getting the biggest machine I could. To me upgrading from a smaller machine to a 4x8 or something similar is in a completely different atmosphere than going from a cabinet saw to a slider.

[Jim Becker]

Bryan, that's a real concern for many folks. My initial thoughts were on a small, "kit" machine...and then I was looking at a 2x4 machine from one manufacturer...and then a 2x4 machine from the manufacturer I decided to buy from...and then a 3x4 machine...and finally ordered a 4x4 machine. And yea...if I could have fit it in...I'd probably have a 4x8. This is more of a conundrum for folks who intend to earn at least part of their income from the machine...size brings flexibility and it's a lot harder to cut something big on a small machine than it is to cut something small on a big machine. Flexibility brings more opportunity.

But to my original point...now that I have it, I really am constantly considering how to use it for each and every idea I have, even for things that in the past I might have done differently. That's not saying I will not actually do them more "traditionally", but I will at least think about the possibilities. And honestly, that's good for the mind!

[bobby milam]

As much as I would like to have a CNC, one of the biggest things that has always stopped me in my tracks is I would hate to get really involved and then regret not getting the biggest machine I could. To me upgrading from a smaller machine to a 4x8 or something similar is in a completely different atmosphere than going from a cabinet saw to a slider.

I got started in the CNC world knowing very little about what a cnc actually was. I bought a small machine from Rocklers and found that I really enjoyed it. It wasn't much of a machine and was limited by size but for the time that I had it, I really didn't have anything that I needed to make that I couldn't make on that sized machine. I sold it to buy things for another hobby and soon after I really regretted it. Now I am looking again and originally I was going to buy another tiny machine, then thought about a DIY kit a little larger, then I had some money coming and it moved up to a 4X4 and now I am at 4X8. My wife isn't happy about it but I have stuck to my guns and decided that I am buying big and something that is pretty well made. Part of my justification is that everyone is buying desktops and more and more people are buying them. If I want to make a little side business when I retire in a couple of years then I need to buy a big machine to do things that they either can;t or that it would be more difficult for them to make on their machine.

That being said, I in no way regret having bought that first machine. I learned a lot. The software that I use is the same regardless of what sized machine I have and now I have a grasp of how to operate it. I had never seen nor heard of a CNC router up to about a week before I purchased my first one. They are a lot of fun and you really have to use your imagination to figure out what things you can produce with one. I wouldn't let starting with a small machine stop you. There is a learning curve and in the beginning, I trashed more wood than I ended up producing from all of the errors that I made. Looking back it was probably a good thing that I had a small machine so my mistakes cost me less. The price of entry level machines in the desktop size are low enough that you can almost guarantee that you will sell off little items that you make to pay for the machine .

Jim,
I turned my 3 car garage into a small woodworking shop and stocked it with lots of tools. When I sold my CNC, I sold it as a package deal with everything included. Now that i am getting back into it, I really have no plans of purchasing all of those extra machines. I am going to make the CNC my main tool and pretty much if I can't make it on the CNC, I'm not going to make it.

[Jim Becker]

Jim,
I turned my 3 car garage into a small woodworking shop and stocked it with lots of tools. When I sold my CNC, I sold it as a package deal with everything included. Now that i am getting back into it, I really have no plans of purchasing all of those extra machines. I am going to make the CNC my main tool and pretty much if I can't make it on the CNC, I'm not going to make it.

My shop is of similar size. I actually use my slider, J/P and bandsaw for a lot of projects, so I'm not likely to be inclined to divest of them. They even get used for CNC projects for sizing material, etc. But I do expect I'll use the CNC more and more for things as I get used to it and think things through.

[Mark Bolton]

If I want to make a little side business when I retire in a couple of years then I need to buy a big machine to do things that they either can;t or that it would be more difficult for them to make on their machine.

Make sure you really do your math on this one with regards to what you think this business will be/make. In just 3-4 years its amazing to see how many people that may have been buying and Xcarve or something "small" are buying $10K, $20K, $30K, $40K, machines. I would guess that number will grow exponentially in the next handful of years. And while Ive touched on this before, and its nothing against Jim and others who are doing business right, your likely going to find yourself competing more and more with individuals who have made a decent living at their day job and in retirement can afford to buy a 30-50k machine or perhaps even more and are looking to a little retirement income with some fuzzy math as far as what their true startup costs are/were.

There is a shop some ways away from us that two individuals making lots of money in their day jobs have basically built a nascar-level wood shop. Epoxy floors, looks like a dentists office when you walk inside. Turning out products for low-to-reasonable money but are able to do it because they were making great money, and now have their other income, and if a job goes south in the shop and they lose their shirt, it'll still hurt, but it wont keep them off their boats, ATV's, and several weeks summer vacation.

There is nothing wrong with that and good for them. But its something to take into consideration in these times of exponential money/technology/and so on. I honestly cant imagine competing in any form of commodity market in a few years. The market will decide but it may come back around to craftsmanship in combination with efficiency of machine production.

I can already see the CNC/3D print etc world saturating for day to day gee-gaws but the market for quality in combination with the cost savings of the tech doesnt seem to be there in a lot of day to day consumer goods.

Just my 0.02

[Steve Middleton]

The first vs last purchase regarding CNC is something I've been thinking about. My biggest concern is learning the software. In Feb I purchase Corel and now have a nodding acquaintance there. My laser arrived Aug 19th and, again, I'm making progress with the software, RD Works. I'm still uncertain how big a leap it is into full 3D software so have been considering a desktop system, less than $1k(?) thinking if problems arise a $1k hickey would be a lot easier to absorb.....

[Jim Becker]

Steve, you don't have to embrace 3D from the start and you may be better served by not jumping in the deep end in that respect relative to software. One of the things I like about the Vectric software is that you can start at 2D/2.5D and later upgrade with no financial penalty to the 3D capability of Aspire or take the time to learn something like Fusion 360 for 3D modeling while you actively use your machine for 2D/2.5D work pretty much right away with VCarve Pro. You can even use the Corel you have to do your 2D drawing and then just import the vectors into VCarve Pro for toolpathing and cutting. There are a lot of sign makers who use Corel for design work simply because "back in the day" it was "the" program and they know it.

I started out thinking about getting one of the "kit" desktop machines, myself. The more I thought about it, the more it made sense to look beyond that given my recent retirement and the potential to use the machine for both personal work and, perhaps, work for others. Then I looked at a 2x4 machine (Axiom) and came close to buying it. Friends I trust suggested the particular manufacturer they were very satisfied with (Camaster) and the idea of a USA-made machine became very appealing, especially when combined with what was billed as outstanding customer support and a broad community to tap. The 2x4 machine idea turned into a 3x4 machine idea. And by the time I ordered, it became 4x4 machine. Honestly, if I had the space, I would have likely ended up larger. I don't regret my decision one bit and even if the business thing doesn't work out long term, I still have an awesome tool to work with that I continually learn new things and new techniques. It's really making me "think" about a lot of things from design through joinery, too.

I like having the flexibility to be able to cut both small things and larger things because that means I can get more utility out of my investment. Today, for example, I'll be cutting the mitered components for an order of photo panels for a friend who is an outstanding local photographer who specializes in florals and shells. While I can and normally have done this on other tools, I want to speed up the production of these things so I get more time benefit from the price I can charge her. Cutting the miters, even with the repeatability of my slider, is a tedious operation and with the material flat on the CNC bed I can basically cut the equivalent of an hour's amount of manual work in about 15 minutes including setup time using a 90º V-bit traveling over five straight lines.

On the same machine, I'm working on a collaborative project with another maker to do the 3D machining of chair seats which he has traditionally done manually and largely with hand tools. He'll still do the final work that way, but the tedious "carving" will be supplanted and he can accept more orders in a given period of time without sacrificing the quality of the end product. This is an example of where a small maker can satisfy demand by using technology to do some basic part fabrication. Yes, there is cost involved, but being able to increase production effectively covers that cost and increases overall revenue for the small business.

Now with all that, I'm not saying that a desktop machine isn't a great option, because that would be far from the truth. I hold the opinion, however, that there are "desktop" machines and there are Desktop "Machines". IMHO, the latter is the better choice if the use will go beyond mere inquisitiveness or strictly hobby use for a variety of reasons, including support, sturdiness, speed, capability, accuracy, etc.